Shouting to a child ?

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mar
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby mar » 26 Aug 2013, 14:42

Yes, me and my wife are very aware of the fact that each no should be justified to the child. The jumping on the floor happened only one time but she is used to have a very heavy step. We have buyed some soft slippers for this but she never uses them....

For me is difficult to communicate with her because she doesn't speak italian yet, but with the mother speaks really well.

After i will post some other "issues"



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Anna
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby Anna » 26 Aug 2013, 15:22

The jumping on the floor happened only one time but she is used to have a very heavy step. We have buyed some soft slippers for this but she never uses them....
Perhaps the slippers aren't comfortable or they're too warm. So within these and such points, suggest to look at all the possible solutions within considering the child. You can place yourself in her shoes and consider what would solutions would work the best. Definitely suggest investigating placing a carpet on the floor.
For me is difficult to communicate with her because she doesn't speak italian yet, but with the mother speaks really well.
Yes, this certainly makes it more difficult -- however here you can utilize the suggestions you have been given here of using your physical body to physically show her what you mean.

I would definitely say that slowly but surely establishing a cool communication with the child based on you taking responsibility for you within the relationship is the key.



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mar
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby mar » 26 Aug 2013, 23:10

For the slippers she doesn't love them because she continuously jumps from the bed to the floor and she always has to drop and put them... i was thinking about slippers with a lace and a bed cover, it seems me the fastest solution.

I have just watched something incredible right now. I've seen that my daughter is very dispersive, she begins 10 jobs and doesn't end none of them. So i've bought for her some "instructive games" like some colored pieces to insert in a tablet structure to form figures.

After she began to play she got bored really soon and she began to annoying me with kicks and throwing me things to have my attention and to basically have a "fast fun".
Me and my wife realized this and decided to stay together with her and "forcing" her to finish what she decided to do on the tablet (which was a colored square). She always distracted at each piece she put and also sometimes put a piece not well "aligned" (and i don't understand if it was done on purpose or for error because it was really easy...). There were also a cartoon running on tv that supported her distraction, so i shut it down and said her (my wife translating...) "when you finish the square you can see the cartoon". She reacted badly and saw this as an imposition and went away, thus i told her "Adriana do you know why me and your mother are insisting that you finish your colored square ? If you come here to listen we will explain to you". After some seconds she came back and i said: "We see that you begin to do 10 things in a time and you don't finish one of them...." She not even let me finish what i was saying that she immediately understood, took 4 or 5 pieces and in 5 seconds finished the square and she remained visibly amazed of the result ! She even put it on the bedside saying "i'll put it here so we can see it tomorrow morning !".

This really impressed me ! I was able to conceptualize this speach because basically i "realized in words what i was doing and thinking..... as if i were suddenly "aware" of what i was doing and i directly expressed it her. This seems to me the maximum level of honesty and selfhonesty.

I have understood that the basic purpose of a parent playing with a child is "being the example of what can be built with practice" and so helping the child to build something that at the moment is out of his possibilities to let him be "amazed" of the result and let him understand the sense of a long term view/perspective.



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mar
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby mar » 27 Aug 2013, 00:52

When and as I see that I go into wanting to brake a rule – I immediately stop myself, take a breath and bring myself back here; and I see, realize and understand that it's because i want to actually have a vengenance/revenge towards what i see as an imposition that goes against my interests given to only satisfy and please the fear of our governors and that is justified convincing the citizens that is for our interests without realizing that even if this can be true for some laws, it's not the case of the totality and that this derives primarily from the vision that i have of my father; thus I commit myself to stop, breath and thinking if what i'm going to do is:
- really what is best for all
- is not just an act of vengenance

When and as I see that I go into thinking that communicating with a policeman is almost impossible because he is a "brainwashed" – I immediately stop myself, take a breath and bring myself back here; and I see, realize and understand that i use the term "brainwashed" to define who i think has believings stronger that mines, thus saying that i'm not really discussing with somebody, but i'm just HITTING his believings with my believings and therefore communicating nothing..... we are not aligning; thus I commit myself to understand that no matter how many belivings one have and how strong they are:
- if i give up mines
- i see the other as my equal and one
- i'm present in the here as breath
i can communicate with everything and everybody



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Leila
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby Leila » 27 Aug 2013, 21:26

She not even let me finish what i was saying that she immediately understood, took 4 or 5 pieces and in 5 seconds finished the square and she remained visibly amazed of the result ! She even put it on the bedside saying "i'll put it here so we can see it tomorrow morning !".
Haha cool -- nice way of seeing how introducing some direct communication can change a situation immediately!

It also shows how we often take for granted 'our agenda' -- where we assume that other people/children know what we want from them, and then we get confused when they don't act according to our 'plan' or the 'purpose' we had assigned to a situation. So for instance with your daughter, in a way it was assumed that she would play with the forms within the context of 'starting and finishing it', while this may have never been her intention, and she just wanted to play/explore and never even came up with the notion of 'starting and finishing'. Then, when you communicated your 'intention' , your plan/purpose that you had assigned to the toys, you gave her direction and she acted accordingly. While before, this information was 'missing' and thus she was merely acting on her own accord. So this event can also work as a reminder to remember communicate/convey your expectations -- because if she is not aware of them, how can she take them into consideration?



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Carrie
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby Carrie » 27 Aug 2013, 22:05

Really cool Mar. And great follow-up support all. Thanks!



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mar
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby mar » 29 Aug 2013, 01:02

Today i'll talk about a strange experience that happened with my daughter.

Many times when there is somebody crying or doing the "mad" i've always thought that a good method to calm down a person is blocking him and simply staying there with him just doing nothing, as if it would mean "stop it, surrender to it, let it go" (crying if it's necessary).

I've always tried this method but i've never being able to "resist" till the end because many thoughts rise up in me like: "what are you doing ? don't you see he/she is crying and suffering more and more while you are doing this ? are you just forcing him/her for wanting him/her to recognize/admit/surrender to what you think ? do you think to be in a movie ? ecc..."

Tonight my wife was sick and was sleeping and it was late and i wanted to put to bed my daughter. She was quite agitated and was continuing to move and play. When i said her that was time to go to sleep, in the very moment she realized it, she began to move more and playing harder to better communicate me that she wasn't interested in going to sleep.
I've seen that normally in this situation the parents just shout more and higher then the child in a challenge that the child cannot win and so the parent just annihilates the child, that goes to bed with a quite bad experience and sensation.
I was tired and i didn't really know what actually do, so i've tried it: i slowly and gently took her hands and placed her on my knees and i began to breath. At first she took it as a game and so began to laughs, wriggle and strongly swim, then she realized that i wasn't playing and she began to wriggle harder and whimper but i told me "i'll stay here breathing and blocking her, no matter what, till she is not stabilized".
After about 1 or 2 minutes she stopped and she had a quite unhappy red face and a little tear in the eye. I said her with a reassuring tone "ok, are we going to sleep ?" She nodded and without saying a word got undressed and went to bed and after a bit she was sleeping.

In spite of the result, many thoughts of guiltiness raised up in me like "what have you done ? It's the same as violence ! you annihilated her ! she won't talk to you anymore ! ecc.......".

Forgiveness soon



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mar
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby mar » 30 Aug 2013, 01:12

Coming back to forgiveness of my neighbour:

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having felt astonished/lost/confused/dishoriented/worried at the first moment i assisted to to his presentation.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having be astonished/confused ecc... for basically 4 things:
- the tone of his voice
- his dressing
- when he showed me the passport
- when he said "i'll call my policeman friends"

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having felt astonished/confused ecc... because i didn't give me/allow me the time to realize what was just happening in the here and instead i felt "overwhelmed" by these things that have "power" on me and within this I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having used my preprogrammed reaction of "are you threatening me" instead of breathing and and giving me the time that i need without worring about the other "waiting" for me. (VERY IMPORTANT POINT TO DEVELOP)

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having feared the tone of his aggressive voice as it remembered me (as always) the tone of my parents scolding me.... and within this i forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having accepted the "high voice attacks" of especially my father (but also my mother) as representative of a fault, MY FAULT and so for something to feel guilty for.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having associated to an high tone of voice of somebody a feeling/emotion of guiltiness and for urging the need of apologizing myself.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for aving thought that his dressing was a lack of respect towards me, as if he was "too relaxed" and so interpreting this as considering me less then me as less "important" then what he was doing.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having unconsciously thought "the passport ? what does this mean ? who the hell does he think to be ? what's the point of doing this ?"

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for thinking that the passport is something that is "more then me" and of who i am without realizing that it's impossible that something can be "more then me".

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having felt threatened when he said "i'll call my policeman friends" and for having thought after how to answer him as "are you a 16 years old kid ? When i was 16 i was used to say "i'll call my bad friends for you"" as a WANNA BE scenario in my mind just to ridiculize him to show him that i don't feel threatened by him.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to think that:
- if i feel threatened by somebody i need to show him that i don't feel threatened because the feeling threatened BY SOMEBODY is actually an externalization of me allowing myself to have/be in fear and thus i'm trying to deny/fight/don't accept this sensation/feeling in showing to my externalization that what's happening is not true.
- a way to show/deny what's happening to me to my externalization is RIDICULIZING IT and so in making it an energy matter in trying to make it LESS then how i perceive it.

more to come



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mar
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby mar » 01 Sep 2013, 20:07

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having feared to be seen by my wife and for fearing that she would not have understood what i was doing and why i was "ignoring" all the moaning of my daughter and whithin this I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for fearing that my wife would have scolded me.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having thought about my wife "shut up i know best !"

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having thought " oh no what have i done !?" when i saw her with a little tear in the eye and within this I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for forgetting what was my primary target in doing this and for having surrender to the "little tear" in having felt guilty.

When and as I see that I go into forgetting what is my primary target in the education of my daughter just because i see a "sign of sufference" – I immediately stop myself, take a breath and bring myself back here; and I see, realize and understand that this is just the society construct that everything that bring sufference should be instantly avoided without allowing a longer therm view; thus I commit myself to stop, breath and remember the primary target i started from and acting consequently.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for knowing that i'll use the previous statement sometimes to allow my self interest being imposed over the child and thus ignoring her "sign of sufference" in remembering me the primary target without realizing that this wasn't self honest,

When and as I see that I go into seeing that i've imposed my "education" to my daughter by an eghoistic starting point – I immediately stop myself, take a breath and bring myself back here; and I see, realize and understand that mistaking is part of my learning process and thus i cannot blame myself for this; thus I commit myself to stop, breath and remember that forgiving myself for having made a mistake in her education is perhaps the most educative example that i can act.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for blaming me MORE in doing a mistake with my daughter because i think that making a mistake that affects other persons is worst then just me and within this I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for so considering me less important then others or feeling me more important then others when their mistakes affect me.



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Anna
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Re: Shouting to a child ?

Postby Anna » 02 Sep 2013, 09:10

Hey Marco.

From what I've understood, the girl is the daughter of your wife, she's 10 years old, speaks a different language and has only recently moved in with you and your wife.

Within such a situation, where the relationship is brand new, I would suggest focusing on first and foremost establishing a relationship with the girl where you can both get to know each other and start learning how to communicate effectively and build trust. As such, I suggest speaking to your wife about her handling the 'raising/education' aspect of caring for the child while you focus more on enjoying yourself with the child, taking walks, playing together and similar activities.

Because here it is important to place yourself in the shoes of the child. Imagine coming to a different country, not knowing the language and having to live with a man that is now your mother's husband. This can be quite a daunting experience for a child and many of her reactions may be originating from this experience. Therefore I would not focus on discipline or education at all in the beginning, especially if what you are doing is coming from a starting-point of reaction and not as a directed decision based on an understanding on how to raise/educate a child.

I surely understand that it is a difficult situation for all three of you -- and this is why I suggest making an agreement with your wife that she will be the primary responsibility in educating the child in the beginning, so that you can focus more on simply getting to know her and establish effective communication. This will also alleviate some of the pressure of you.

The primary point I suggest taking on within how you approach the child, is to in all moments place yourself in her shoes - meaning consider the situation from her perspective and accordingly look at what would be the most supportive course of action to take.

I can share with you that I actually had a similar experience, where when I was 10 years old, my mother moved us in with her new boyfriend and although it wasn't in a new country where I couldn't speak the language, this was a very difficult experience for me. Also within this consider that a 10 year old already has an entire life behind her and as such one cannot simply re-start educating them or raising them, but have to also work with who they are now and see them as a being.

I am glad that you are asking for support and sharing yourself here because this is surely a difficult situation that many parents and stepparents face and it can be quite tabooed, especially for stepparents for whom it can be difficult when suddenly having to live with a child. It is much different raising a child that you've known since they were born. So this point, as you continue to walk it and expand yourself - educating yourself to become a parent - can be of great assistance and support for others facing similar situations.

Thanks.




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