When the child just challenge

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mar
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When the child just challenge

Postby mar » 14 Sep 2013, 22:31

Another quite problematic behaviour of my daughter is that she simply doesn't accept any form of "correction".
When for example she is playing with the lamp turning it on and off you say her gently "Stop A. because it's gonna brake" she sometimes don't even let you finish to talk that she shouts to you back saying "Marco !!?" or "mum !!?" like sort of saying " shut up !! i do what i want !! f*** you !!". And you if you just try to reply she shouts you even worse.... 2, 3 , 4 times till the situation degenerates.

It's a quite violent behaviour because she almost seems an "angry woman" that i think she has learnt by somebody. This is always an hard moment because me and my wife always feel challenged by her and we have the tendency to "play the game" and "win the fight" resulting that the child barely cries.

I think i've obtained a little result in the "lamp time" in just replying her "A. it's gonna brake !" looking her in the eyes and with the same firm voice everytime she shouted me.

The result was that she shouted harder and harder while i was always saying the same thing with the same tonality...... trying to remain as stable as i can "no matter what".
In the end she just gave up.

Any suggestion ?

How do you think this point can be corrected ?
Is there another tecnique ?
Can i relate on this one ?



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Anna
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Re: When the child just challenge

Postby Anna » 15 Sep 2013, 11:56

Hey Marco.

As previously discussed, the child is in a new country living with her mom's new husband with a language she doesn't understand. As far as I've understood she has lived years with other relatives - is that so? So yes - she's definitely coming with 'baggage' in the sense that she's been raised before she came to live with you guys. Something that might be cool is to investigate how she was living before, talk to the people who raised her, find out what was going on to better understand her behavior. Within this also understand that when children are in a new situation like this, they might be uncomfortable and experience a lot of fears and experiences that causes them to react and 'act out'.

My suggestion is to first of all muster patience within yourself and with your wife and to not create any expectations of how the situations is going to go - because it might take a while for her to stabilize within this new living-situation and one of the most important points within that is that you and your wife remain stable. So I suggest walking a self-forgiveness writing on the experiences that comes up within you when these situations come up.

I definitely understand that it can be difficult, especially if one has had no training with children or how to communicate effectively with children, let alone understand the dynamics involved with a child in her position. But even when that is said, children can sometimes be stubborn and testing the boundaries and so her behavior isn't abnormal. I work with children every day and often face similar situations and what I've found is that it is when I have reactions and experiences where I feel 'powerless' - it isn't actually about the child or what they do, but simply that I don't have the skills or understanding of how to effectively direct such situations. And thus what is required is that I educate myself and look at how I can practically correct the situation. There can be many reasons why she does what she does - she might be under-stimulated (Is she in school?). What I'd suggest is try various ways of approaching such situations, try ignoring it for example and see what happens or try 'matching' her expression - meaning doing the same as what she does. Though most importantly of all - work with stopping your own reactions through writing, self-forgiveness and breathing.

let us know how it goes!



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barbara
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Re: When the child just challenge

Postby barbara » 15 Sep 2013, 12:40

Hi Mar,
cool to stay as stable as you are able to, staying steady within what you allow and don’t allow, saying ‘I do not allow that you play with the lamp, it is not a toy.’ As Anna is saying it’s a matter of time and she coming with baggage, thus it will take stable consistency to deprogram allowances the child has toward the energetic movements within and as her mind. Thus it is to see that she’s being pulled into the fascination of manipulating the lamp to produce some kind physical consequence which can be used energetically and also testing out what reactions she can provoke from either you or your wife. This often comes from being bored, as Anna pointed out, and thus a starting point of wanting attention as energy. So, really best to show that you’re stable so she can also find this as a solution to the energy demands of herself as mind.
Removing the child into her room might also work if you are able to do this as a plain and stable consequence of her not following specific rules.
Cool with your being stable, Mar!



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Carrie
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Re: When the child just challenge

Postby Carrie » 15 Sep 2013, 17:19

Hey Mar. This post brings me back to when I was a kid with a step-father - and I remember being quite difficult. Lol. What Anna and Barbara are saying is true: this child is bored, she's acting out that she would like to interact interpersonally to relieve her boredom and get attention and to get this, she's working on getting a reaction. Cool that you've managed to stay stable - this establishes you as a point of stability from which you can build trust.

So what now?

We're aware that a child her age has already learned the consequences of playing with a lamp - which is, it's most likely going to break. And we're aware that she's bored and attempting to get your attention. I did this with many adults as I was growing up and what it came down to is that I wanted to do SOMETHING! Anything! And that it would be even more cool if the adults did that something with me. The adults in my life that I remember as having a really good relationship with are the ones that would do things with me from time-to-time. I still remember how one of my parents friends sat down with me one day and taught me a cool way to color with crayons. During my life, the confidence that I had from being taught to express myself with color, assisted me with exploring all kinds of art media. It's these little things that we enjoy doing ourselves that can be shared with kids.

As I suggested in a previous post, find activities you can do together. You can do an Internet search for 'things to do with kids' and all kinds of fun activities will come up.

I would also like to note that because of my own experiences growing up that I have attempted to overcompensate with my children and keep them busy doing activities all the time. I have found that this isn't necessary as it's great for a child to play on their own as well. And you may find that your child enjoys playing on their own more after she's had some interpersonal play and active time with you.



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sylvia
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Re: When the child just challenge

Postby sylvia » 17 Sep 2013, 08:42

Cool support guys!

When I look at myself and imagine speaking the words "Stop A, because it is gonna brake" , I can see fear within myself and irritation of the physical fact that the lamp will break and I have to replace it with a new one that costs money that was unnecessary to pay when my child had obeyed me. Thinking of changing the lamp gives me the idea that I will have more work to do and that would be unnecessary if the child had obeyed my words. So I'm frustrated with the fact that I feel weak/limited/and failed at being a parent the way I think it should be. This overall feeling of failure makes it heavy and hard to step into the shoes of the child and reach beyond my own irritations/frustrations. So little tasks and interacting with the child are colored by my own limitations.

As said already step one is to write yourself out as it comes to the emotion and feeling department.

Step two is to understand that children in all situations, whether they are your own or not try to provoke reaction within you as a parent/educator. So I would suggest to spent time with her within little things, involve her in your and her new life and not spent some time with her, not right after you felt irritated by her, and therefore acting from a point of guilt/wanting to make things good again. Try to find moments to get to know her and see what makes her able to express herself. The bonding with this child will take time, look at all the years you weren't together, you can't expect to have instant trust when that normally grows over time. So look for things that you have in common, that's easier within the interaction and become indeed that stable point within her life that she needs right now where her world is up side down. In the end she has to become stable within herself, but for the time being you can be that living example for her.

When I look at myself and my kids I can see that it has always been very important that I did what I said and when I couldn't I did explain that to them on forehand and not afterwards when things were already gone into emotions like disappointment. I once made a bag with the text " Faccio quello che dico " (I do as I say) and my kids loved it, though most of my fellow citizens felt awkward by these words...cause it's mostly not what we do.



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mar
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Re: When the child just challenge

Postby mar » 17 Sep 2013, 23:10

Yes sometimes she is bored but it's not only for this. I think it's rather the standard answer for everytime she feels challenged and for each "no".

She has lived with her grandmother and grandfather till now, in an environment quite uncaring. She has just learnt pampering and shouting. Nobody has ever played with her or taught her to count 10.

Anyway i see that many time that i stop/reprove her is from a starting point of fear, fear of the damage that she can do. When it's this, her reaction is particularly strong.

So the point that should be forgiven i think are 2:
- the fear leads me to want to stop her
- the wanting to participate to the command game

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having always feared that she is going to brake everything she touchs (the opposite of the re mida touch....)

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to see her "the one who touches and brakes my things".

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to see in everything she does a lost of money (like playing with the fridge, with hot water or with lights).

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to see her sort of an intruder in my environment.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for wanting to show her something of mine to amaze her but then pretending she will have care of it, witout realizing that:
- wanting to amaze her maybe a selfish starting point, not a real and honest care for her
- pretending that she has care for something is sometimes like pretending that a cat won't play with your shoes

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for wanting to amaze her also for a self gratification.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for thinking that if i can amaze a "pure figure" like a child, i can be "more/better".

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to feel angry towards her because she broke the exact thing i told her to care of without realizing that if i really cared to it maybe it was better to not show it to her or take it away from her and replace it with a safer thing.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having identified with the things in my house as ME or WHO I AM and for being jealous of them (probably as my mother and father)

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for feeling dischonfort and for being worried everytime i see her playing with something in the house which is not a game but that i consider mine and that i see that she is interacting with it not in the way that i consider "proper" in the sense of a "caring and respectful way for other's things".

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to think that the "proper way" to interact with things that are not mine is "always keep in mind that this is not mine, to handle it better then i handel mines.... with a special eye". This means that i don't have a good care for my things as for myself and that i prefer take care of others hoping that they will take care about me.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for allowing a reaction within myself when she challenge me.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having defined challanging/attacking/negative/dangerous/to defend by/to avoid/to accomodate/to fight/to despise/to critic the behaviour composed by:
- a fit that turns the head towards my direction looking in my eyes
- high volume of voice and fast words
- a frowning - angry face

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for having basically 2 feelings when this happens, which can be fear or rage.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for feelling fear in her reaction as it clearly recalls pasts experiences especially of my mother and father that shouted to me in the same way and where i had to give up and obey to what was asked me.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to give up to the temper tantrum of my mother/father/wife/daughter/friends ecc.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to just fear the temper tantrum as something dangerous.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to have associated to the tmper tnatrum sort of an order that i cannot refuse/escape.... sort of password of the obedience.

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself to want to obey to the temper tantrum in having pity of the one and in thinking "i would never want to feel like that... i don't want to be the one who makes him/her feels like that.... i don't want to feel guilty for this"

I forgive myself for having accepted and allowed myself for sometimes wanting to "fight back" to the bad answer and justify myself saying "i know that i'm right !"

continuing next time




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christine
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Re: When the child just challenge

Postby christine » 18 Sep 2013, 00:02

yes, very cool Mar that you are directing yourself, that you see/realize your starting point...



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mar
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Re: When the child just challenge

Postby mar » 18 Sep 2013, 00:46

When I look at myself and my kids I can see that it has always been very important that I did what I said and when I couldn't I did explain that to them on forehand and not afterwards when things were already gone into emotions like disappointment. I once made a bag with the text " Faccio quello che dico " (I do as I say) and my kids loved it, though most of my fellow citizens felt awkward by these words...cause it's mostly not what we do.
Hahaha yes we do it too ! We say "Everybody should answer for what says !".

Particularly i use the clock as reference with my nephew, i say him "the clock is fair ! " or "the clock is always right !" when for instance he asks to play with me I say him "look at the clock, i can play with you from this hour to that hour, so please come back later, now i need to stay alone" if he says ok but he doesn't respect what was the "agreement" or doesn't want to stop play i say "ok let's look at the clock because it knows who is right.... the clock never lies".



Eleonora
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Re: When the child just challenge

Postby Eleonora » 18 Sep 2013, 01:28

Thanks for sharing your self forgiveness Mar,
it will certainly assist many other parents who are working to better their parenting skills and to become Equals to their children for real.




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