Am I raising a wimp?

Lana
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Lana » 26 Feb 2014, 20:25

sylvia, thanks for the advice! a good idea!

I went to the library this afternoon and got some new books for us. I will try to redirect him right away tomorrow morning. this could become a cool ritual for us, in the evening he is mostly to tired to watch books, cause he refuses to sleep in the afternoon.

I will report about it!



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sylvia
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby sylvia » 26 Feb 2014, 20:54

Very cool Lana!

When he gets a bit older and gets more comfortable with speech and language you can together come up with stories/fantasy stories. That way he can apply the language he learned. We had a lot of fun in our home with my two kids, while thinking up the most hilarious stories. So walk it step by step and grow with Noa and your new born into this world of words, because words are the building blocks of our world.



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Antoaneta
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Antoaneta » 02 Mar 2014, 06:47

"From my perspective, this might not be the best way to go about it, because it can cause the child to feel pressured and create a negative association with feeling forced to speak, rather than it being something that develops naturally. As far as I am aware, speech therapists generally don't see it as a problem until the child is over 3 years old and then they slowly begin assisting the child to start speaking. From what I've seen, some children simply are 'late bloomers' and some even don't speak at all until they're satisfied that they can pronounce the words. So I would look at this point in terms of your starting-point within wanting him to speak where there may be reactions like fear directing you to want him to speak and so try and force him where it may have the effect that he goes into resistance. Obviously there's no rules about this that are set in stone - so it's something one can only asses for oneself in self-honesty."

Hi Anna,
I actually had a bit of reaction to your words when I first read your post. So I had to evaluate my starting point in what I wrote because as I was writing my previous post my starting point was that of wanting to be right and give a good advice without considering other perspectives in having a child speak.
Just to make it clear- I am not afraid of my child receiving speech therapy- I looked at if that was my reaction or if there was any fear in that. However to the speech therapist that I have talked to that come to see other children in the day care- they have all advised for Victor to be evaluated. And when I told my mom she reacted negatively and I think I picked up on that negative vibe from my mom (as if speech therapy was indicating something bad about my child). But I understand from a speech perspective that it is better to get the help sooner than later- my point is deciding if that is something that he will really need or not. In the States there is something called early intervention which is for children birth-3 years old (and speech therapy is part of that early intervention) which is why he was referred so early to get evaluated based on how many words he can say at a given age. What I have seen speech therapist do in session is that they prompt the child to speak by communicating, letting them play a game, asking them questions, prompting talking- well that is the least I have witnessed them do. Of course there is much more to the job.
I see what you are saying about pushing the child away and forcing them to speak- there is a girl in one of my classes who just nods her head yes and no and I have never heard her say one word, never asks for anything, plays by herself, and uses a lot of body language- but according to her parents she speaks at home. So a couple of days ago I asked her to tell me what she had drawn because that is part of me taking documentation down of the child's development and she refused to talk. I saw that she was uncomfortable in her body language- thus I left her alone. With Victor however, he is NOT showing me that he is uncomfortable- and I know he can say the words I am asking of him. Since I began prompting him he has been expressing in more words. So from that perspective I have taken him into consideration. Sometimes he gets upset because something else had perviously occurred and not because I am asking him to talk. I looked at that point since my last post as to why he would be getting upset. Otherwise he pretend talks a lot- it's gibberish but with intonation and voice expression.



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barbara
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby barbara » 02 Mar 2014, 09:28

What is also cool to investigate is what my then family classical homoeopath explained to me when I had my 3 children undergo constitutional homoeopathy for various developmental/physical and emotional reasons was the 3 stages many children go through from a homoeopathical perspective from birth - being Sulphur, Calcium Carbonicum and Lycopodium. They follow well onto each other in this progression. a child might have gone through the Sulphur phase for a very short time only, like around birth, and then progressed into Calcium Carbonicum and remaining there for a length of time, not managing to develop and mature. The Calcium Carbonicum stage is where the child is slow as compared to other children, with regards to speech, getting dressed on your own, potty abilities, sleeping on its own, letting go of Mom/Dad, teething, physical growth and social interaction. Then the Lycopodium phase again has its own features and criteria. These remedies have been proven to be a great natural support as trigger/prompt as/within an intensification of the information of what is here in the being as the mind and also on the physical level.

The support we gained from this classical (constitutional, in German: Konstitutionstherapie) application method was invaluable for us and helped smooth out the social and interfamily situation to a great extent. There is also another cycle of 3 remedies that is relevant for other 'natures' or mind/physical development stages, though I've forgotten the remedy names that its made up of.

So from my perspective, the support of a classical homoeopath is definitely something to be taken into consideration!



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Anna
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Anna » 02 Mar 2014, 14:50

"From my perspective, this might not be the best way to go about it, because it can cause the child to feel pressured and create a negative association with feeling forced to speak, rather than it being something that develops naturally. As far as I am aware, speech therapists generally don't see it as a problem until the child is over 3 years old and then they slowly begin assisting the child to start speaking. From what I've seen, some children simply are 'late bloomers' and some even don't speak at all until they're satisfied that they can pronounce the words. So I would look at this point in terms of your starting-point within wanting him to speak where there may be reactions like fear directing you to want him to speak and so try and force him where it may have the effect that he goes into resistance. Obviously there's no rules about this that are set in stone - so it's something one can only asses for oneself in self-honesty."

Hi Anna,
I actually had a bit of reaction to your words when I first read your post. So I had to evaluate my starting point in what I wrote because as I was writing my previous post my starting point was that of wanting to be right and give a good advice without considering other perspectives in having a child speak.
Just to make it clear- I am not afraid of my child receiving speech therapy- I looked at if that was my reaction or if there was any fear in that. However to the speech therapist that I have talked to that come to see other children in the day care- they have all advised for Victor to be evaluated. And when I told my mom she reacted negatively and I think I picked up on that negative vibe from my mom (as if speech therapy was indicating something bad about my child). But I understand from a speech perspective that it is better to get the help sooner than later- my point is deciding if that is something that he will really need or not. In the States there is something called early intervention which is for children birth-3 years old (and speech therapy is part of that early intervention) which is why he was referred so early to get evaluated based on how many words he can say at a given age. What I have seen speech therapist do in session is that they prompt the child to speak by communicating, letting them play a game, asking them questions, prompting talking- well that is the least I have witnessed them do. Of course there is much more to the job.
I see what you are saying about pushing the child away and forcing them to speak- there is a girl in one of my classes who just nods her head yes and no and I have never heard her say one word, never asks for anything, plays by herself, and uses a lot of body language- but according to her parents she speaks at home. So a couple of days ago I asked her to tell me what she had drawn because that is part of me taking documentation down of the child's development and she refused to talk. I saw that she was uncomfortable in her body language- thus I left her alone. With Victor however, he is NOT showing me that he is uncomfortable- and I know he can say the words I am asking of him. Since I began prompting him he has been expressing in more words. So from that perspective I have taken him into consideration. Sometimes he gets upset because something else had perviously occurred and not because I am asking him to talk. I looked at that point since my last post as to why he would be getting upset. Otherwise he pretend talks a lot- it's gibberish but with intonation and voice expression.

Cool Antoaneta. I see that it is often a sensitive subject for parents when others comment on their parenting and maybe especially with being a preschool teacher as well, there can perhaps been a expectation of that one should or does necessarily know what is right. So it is definitely cool if we here at the Desteni forum can transcend that taboo - so that we can begin discussing parenting without it being a personal judgment of the parent and also where parents can express themselves and ask questions without fearing to be judged. The cool thing is also that we can come here and share different perspectives and there's definitely a cultural difference as well in how childcare is approached for example in the U.S and in Sweden. So it is cool to get many different perspectives and we can all learn from each other and also to not take anything for granted.

When I was around 3 or 4 I refused to learn how to tie my shoes and to use a zipper. The reason for this was plain laziness. lol - I simply liked it when the adults would do stuff for me. Eventually they saw through my manipulation and said that from now on I had to do it myself. So I was 'forced' to learn and it was absolutely the appropriate thing to do because my starting-point was self-interest and not for example a learning deficit lol. So obviously there are instances where prompting is the best course of action. Then another example is with a child I am working with. He is two years old and the first many months I worked with him he didn't speak at all but would only make animal-type sounds. After some months he started pretend-speaking and it sounded liked he had some form of speech impediment. Teachers and parents would encourage him to speak, but they didn't make a big deal out of it in terms of being afraid that there was something wrong with him. Then finally, a few weeks ago he suddenly started talking, not fluently but saying actual words. So in that situation it was a case of natural development, where it was cool to simply let the child develop at his own pace. I see that if we had started pressuring him and seen it as a problem, he could have picked up on it and start associating speaking with something fearful. I am not saying that this is what you are doing with your child. It's more a comment in general on the topic of pressuring or forcing a child to learn and how in some instances it might be relevant and in others not.



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KellyPosey
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby KellyPosey » 03 Mar 2014, 00:23

Wow what a great thead with so many cool perspectives here. One thing I would add about the point of first investigating one's own reactions to the child or the points they are bringing out, is that first sorting out oneself is such an important key because if we are having reactions to the child and the child is reacting to those reactions, then to try and change or address their behavior without changing what is throwing them off in the first place is going to just create more consequence, and often get in the way of solving the problem.

I would also greatly suggest the parenting series, I can't express enough how supportive that series is. I don't have children yet and I can't imagine facing and walking through that without the perspectives shared in that series, I can already see especially looking at my own time being a child, how it would prevent soooo many conseuqences through understanding how some of the aspects of the development of children works and our role within that in how we shape the children through the example we live.

My mother had a very stressful time raising me and my brother who was born when I was five and my father was in the military, we'd just moved to a new state where they had no family/friends or community support and she didn't drive, and my father would be away for weeks or months at a time. I can look back now and see how the reactions and taking things personally made things so much more consequential than they were and made problems and behaviors drag on that had effected me and I've been busy sorting out even to this day. I would say the key to this and what I am working on with/for myself, is to be able to stand within whatever is going on on not have a reaction to/take it personally in any way, because then I am actually contributing to it and causing more consequence, and it takes longer to see what is practical the solution. But within this, it's going to take time and so to not then react to myself if in moments I do go into reaction, but to use such moments as part of the process.

Writing as has been suggested I would say is one of, if not the most, important tools within this. To write out each day what kind of reactions came up. Or to even just start with writing about what hapened during the day, and then you can go back over it and investigate where you reacted, because you may not even see it before it's written down. There are so many assumptions, beliefs, expectations, fears we have that all influence/shape our perception of what is going on in our reality, that we don't even realize we've taken for granted and accepted as real, like a 'simple' point such as 'when my child does this/that I feel/experience anxiety' and then I give in' that we've accepted as valid and affects our very behavior, so we've got to really investigate every point, every thought, every idea we have, and see where we have given away our power/our ability to direct ourselves to something/someone outside ourself, so this is defnitely something supportive to work on on a consistent basis when/as one has time. I have gained also so much perspective on just going back through my own experiences as a child.

And like Anna shared about the point about being lazy to tie the shoes, children will also have points like that so you really can't take their stuff personally. In the end how you deal with them reflects your own relationship/standing with yourself and your approach to living. So wherever there are reactions is a point that self hasn't clarified yet, and the perfect point to do some writing on it, or bring it to the forum or have a chat about it when further perspectives are required of course. So cool that we have this platform.

Thanks for all the supportive perspectives here, and from those who have or are walking with children. This stuff is so important to share to assist anyone who would be/is a parent.



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terhas
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby terhas » 03 Mar 2014, 17:29

this really is an amazing thread guys. such support and all around consideration via tons of perspectives. cool stuff.
What I suggest in relation to reading books with Noa, you might try books with him about big bellies and having a new baby brother or sister, if that's what he likes to talk about. Always stay close to where the child's interest is and when they like the reading you can expand.

cool suggestion sylvia. to expand on that even books that make whats being read a bit more real and physical. fun :). books that noa can touch and feel a belly or baby inside (they have them! lol) or pop up books with shapes and colors. it is important to meet a child where they are. but to first understand exactly where they are.
I actually had a bit of reaction to your words when I first read your post. So I had to evaluate my starting point in what I wrote because as I was writing my previous post my starting point was that of wanting to be right and give a good advice without considering other perspectives in having a child speak.


so awesome that we are creating ourselves into people who are willing to evaluate and assess ourselves within what we say, do and feel. this is something so many gloss over as a normalcy in life. to just accept whatever comes from us because we hold ourselves on some mental pedestal as a created personality. but we here at desteni know better. and we spread that knowledge into the physical with our actions. and its awesome.
Cool Antoaneta. I see that it is often a sensitive subject for parents when others comment on their parenting and maybe especially with being a preschool teacher as well, there can perhaps been a expectation of that one should or does necessarily know what is right. So it is definitely cool if we here at the Desteni forum can transcend that taboo - so that we can begin discussing parenting without it being a personal judgment of the parent and also where parents can express themselves and ask questions without fearing to be judged.
yes yes yes!

thanks to everyone contributing to this topic.



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Rebecca Dalmas
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Rebecca Dalmas » 05 Mar 2014, 03:59

Reading this thread some more brought up a memory of tutoring a first grader. She did not speak. At first I tried to get her to speak, but this did not work. So, I just talked about what we were doing, and slowly turned the task over to her. I became as quiet as her. Then I remained within this, not reacting to it. It took a few sessions, and then one day, she just started talking about her cat. I just looked at her and let her talk, I did not even ask questions for some moments, just let her talk. ( I was too busy being surprised!)
It had been the same with an older boy. He was very quiet. Slowly, over some time, he began to talk, we even discussed some of the things in his life. At first I was nervous when he started to talk about his life. As some time went by, I realized he just wanted someone to listen ( he did not have his mother around).
In both instances, I remained the same, and functioned within a structure, creating an environment that was stable and consistent. This structure gives the child a sense of stability and once this is clear , the child begins to open up within it.
As far as children being like their parents, this is spot on. I can see how much my children are just like me. They have been with me alone since they were 7 and 9. Now they are in their early twenties, and many of their issues are the same as mine. Sometimes they call me from college and they just want to talk. I have to say that the whole desteni process has helped immensely with this.



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hilda rac
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby hilda rac » 05 Mar 2014, 17:37

@Lana: Bernard did not explain in detail how he was mirroring his children's emotions, but I reckon that if they screamed and whined, he'd do the same. That's how I would go about it, show the child how ridiculous and unacceptable their behaviour is, show the "Don't do to another what you don't want done onto yourself" principle in action. Perhaps Cerise and LJ could give some perspective on this.



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terhas
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby terhas » 06 Mar 2014, 16:37

@Lana: Bernard did not explain in detail how he was mirroring his children's emotions, but I reckon that if they screamed and whined, he'd do the same. That's how I would go about it, show the child how ridiculous and unacceptable their behaviour is, show the "Don't do to another what you don't want done onto yourself" principle in action. Perhaps Cerise and LJ could give some perspective on this.

yes, maybe they can elaborate on his method. its an interesting approach towards a child. reciprocation. i havent yet considered the ability of a small child to recognize that approach as teaching. when my little sister reciprocates what my niece gives her it escalates. the behavior/emotion/attidude from my niece. i doubt my little sister is reciprocating as b did though. her reciprocation is via playing with my niece. not showing her what she is putting out. would be interesting to see how he did that. to be a mirror instead of the stability. kinda allows the child to form the stability needed. if it works out.




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