Am I raising a wimp?

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terhas
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby terhas » 07 Mar 2014, 15:56

So as long as we are coming from any point of reaction, energy, fear, judgment, control, manipulation, force, we really can't expect to be heard or trusted or reacted to rationally. It's like expecting another to do something we aren't even doing ourself. Like - I expect you to ignore what I am participating in and just see the common sense and not react, when I am not even simply sticking to common sense myself but allow myself to go into and be directed by reactions, emotions, and feelings. I mean, when we are coming at it from a point of force/energy/reaction/manipulation we are actually creating the worst possible situation for them to see/hear the common sense in a moment, and thus within that, we're also responsible in a way for the consequences they walk into, because we didn't give them the best possible chance to educate themself.
yes. this is a very interesting point i see. because i do come at her with common sense. and explain things very plain and clear and detailed to cover all corners with her. (which she does not like. says i consider too much. but i digress..). but beneath this common sense is energy. theres fear. worry. sadness. and that shit does affects the effect of the common sense. u cant hide things from a teenager. if i am experiencing an emotion she will call me out on it ( "ur just being angry at me." "ur not even listening." ) because shes heard me voice the common sense that it is not supportive to move from that point. or she will react to it. so if there is energy, ANYWHERE, within my common sense it taints it. and its not able to be seen walked. ok. yes.



Lana
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Lana » 07 Mar 2014, 23:03

great support here, thanks to all who took some time to share and type down the own experiences with family and children.

so, noa is 3 years now, we had some kind of birthdayparty, a small one with a cake and a few presents. we have never done this before, but he saw many children at day care celebrating, that is why we decided to do is this year. he was actually quite happy about it and fell asleep at 5 pm cause of all the excitement (I don't bake cake every day).

the whining is getting much better and if he comes to me in the morning to cuddle in the bed he asks me for a book now. but still I can't read to him, he wants to hold it and control what is going on.
when he comes home from day care I am trying to express how glad I am to see him again and it seems to work, the whining got much better. in other situations I might still be to soft, sometimes I catch myself feeling pitty for him, for no reason. what I've noticed is that all of this is related to his speaking skills. he is developing fast a.t.m. and we can have some kind of conversation or comunicate. that wasn't possible before. I would f.i. like to ask him for a solution if we have a problem, but I can't right now, since he will not be able to understand and offer me a solution.
the diaper situation is still difficult, he doesn't like the potty training, but he is tellin me now (not every time) if he has to pee. the poo thing is complicated, he kind of wants to do this on his own. he goes away and hides somewhere, he often takes of his clothes, but doesn't tell me he has to, so I smell it in the end...
anyway, there are certainly many factors influencing our relationship and it's impossible to handle them all at once. I wouldn't say I am not treating him as an equal, but sometimes I am just not sure what that means. I also have trouble staying with the word "no" and sometimes have the feeling I am allowing him to much, at the same time I doubt my approach if I am to strict or to often saying no and giving him a "time out". I would like to try it in a different way but since I can't speak to him and expect him to understand me, it can be sometimes quite stressful for all of us. I do not see myself as superior to him, but as the responsible one. if we have some sweets in the evening and forget to put them away, so they are still on the table next morning, our son can find and eat them. it happens sometimes and I will not say to him to not eat, since it is my fault, not his, that's the rule.

mirroring the emotions is what I have also tried, but this only works if you are really experiencing the emotion. when I really cry cause I feel helpless my son stops crying and even asks me what is wrong. if he can see I'm really desperate he will stop his tantrums and try to be there for me. sounds not good that a grown up mum starts to cry sometimes, but it happend and since I am a human being (means not perfect) it will probably happen sometimes again. mirroring the whining is not good at all, it will make it worse, making him laugh does work sometimes (not in the morning). I have not experienced him angry till now, only if something doesn't work the way he wants to, but he usually starts to scream and cry in his frustration.

the word wimp doesn't mean anything to me. it's an english word, but the word "weichei" that my friend used means "soft egg". that would be a bit insulting, but actually for me it is not anything bad. I also haven't been a 'tough girl'... but I guess when someone is telling you your son is a douchebag you do react to that, cause it's a picture in our heads, males have to be strong and solid etc. I do not expect this from my son, I only want him to be able to defend himself in case he needs to.



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Carrie
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Carrie » 08 Mar 2014, 04:02

the whining is getting much better
Cool Lana!
the poo thing is complicated, he kind of wants to do this on his own. he goes away and hides somewhere, he often takes of his clothes, but doesn't tell me he has to, so I smell it in the end...
LOL. Yes, I can relate here. My son did the same thing at that age. When I saw the issue wasn't improving after communicating with him for several months about it and testing out a few different ways to make him more aware of how inconvenient and unclean it was and it still wasn't having any effect on his habits, I placed him on a 21-Day Break A Habit plan where we drew out a 21 day chart and hung it in the bathroom. So, every day that he did a poo, he would get to cross that day off the chart. He REALLY enjoyed this. So much in-fact that we made charts for poo and pee - for both him and I. They key for my son was to not place any pressure on him when he made a mistake - we simply removed the chart and started over again from Day 1. On his 3rd chart, he broke the habit. My son was a little older than yours when we did this.



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CerisePoolman
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby CerisePoolman » 08 Mar 2014, 16:30

Terhas, it is impossible to compare my childhood and teenage years to what any other child goes through, so it is inevitable that you will face challenges that I never went through simply because my relationship with Bernard was one of mutual respect and honesty which is so rare.

As others have suggested, I agree that you need to look at your own experience when communicating with your sister and do not allow any underlying or hidden emotions, feelings, thoughts etc to influence your communication.

I did go through a teenage period of going out to dance clubs etc, and Bernard actually used to drop me off and pick me up. He trusted that I would not drink or do anything stupid. I always stayed in contact and let him know that I was safe or on my way home etc. He very seldom restricted my activities like giving me curfews - if he did it was for a practical reason. He never said "no you can't do this or that - I say this because I know better than you". There was never any "I know better" - he always gave clear reasons that I could understand.

When you already have a history with someone it makes it that much "harder" to change the relationship, but as always it starts with changing yourself and being consistent and persistent.

I would like to emphasize how important consistency is in all of our relationships, especially with those to whom we are setting examples for.



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Anna
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Anna » 08 Mar 2014, 17:41

It would be awesome if you could write a book or even a manual lol Cerise based on your experiences.



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terhas
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby terhas » 08 Mar 2014, 19:52

It would be awesome if you could write a book or even a manual lol Cerise based on your experiences.
agreed :)
Terhas, it is impossible to compare my childhood and teenage years to what any other child goes through, so it is inevitable that you will face challenges that I never went through simply because my relationship with Bernard was one of mutual respect and honesty which is so rare.

As others have suggested, I agree that you need to look at your own experience when communicating with your sister and do not allow any underlying or hidden emotions, feelings, thoughts etc to influence your communication.

I did go through a teenage period of going out to dance clubs etc, and Bernard actually used to drop me off and pick me up. He trusted that I would not drink or do anything stupid. I always stayed in contact and let him know that I was safe or on my way home etc. He very seldom restricted my activities like giving me curfews - if he did it was for a practical reason. He never said "no you can't do this or that - I say this because I know better than you". There was never any "I know better" - he always gave clear reasons that I could understand.

When you already have a history with someone it makes it that much "harder" to change the relationship, but as always it starts with changing yourself and being consistent and persistent.

I would like to emphasize how important consistency is in all of our relationships, especially with those to whom we are setting examples for.
i can see that it is my experience within communicating with my sister that makes me emotional from my side. unstable. makes communication harder. the fear and worry and sadness ive created around the situation that is beneath my communication with her. it cant be trusted. kellys experiences have helped me to realize that point. and with the point of being afraid to let her make decisions. ur experience of that mutual respect and honesty with b and how that manifested in/as u learning to direct urself within ur decisions while informed of the practicality within them, aside of how rare that definitely is, helps me to consider that because my sister and i/we have not developed that as a starting point to our relationship it attributes to much of our issues. the situations are definitely different (for many reasons but) because i cannot just decided to let her start making what ever decision she wants, while informing her of consequences and practicality within, because we have not developed mutual respect and honesty as a starting point. but it can be developed. what many have shared in this thread helps me see that it starts with me, this relationship with her. its not a point of comparing but gaining perspective from others teenage year experience. because mine was not like hers. so i find it hard to relate to staying out all night or lying or not communication or utter disrespect. because i didnt do it. my friends didnt do it. my siblings didnt do it. and if i have seen it from a cousin or so the solution was to whoop the child til the behavior went away. war. physical force. and i DEFINITELY will not do what i know. so i explore what i dont yet. i never just say to my sister "u know better". i know that she knows better. ive heard her dissect the actions of her friend (that were exact to her own on a different occasion. i.e staying out all night without word and how that effects others) saying what she should have done different. but i explain why its not considerate of others to stay out all night without communication at all or how we would not be able to know if she was in actual trouble and needed help if she does not communicate or why its not considerate of herself to just disregard school because she doesnt like it. and that its not only about what one likes or is comfortable with that equates to self support-thats there is more to consider but energy from feelings or how she can support herself within not understanding school work or getting support there with the in house help and support as it always came pretty easy to me. but i see that our starting point needs to be addressed/defined. and who i am beneath my communication with her as emotionality, instability and inconsistency needs to change.



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Leila
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Leila » 09 Mar 2014, 09:56

I also have trouble staying with the word "no" and sometimes have the feeling I am allowing him to much, at the same time I doubt my approach if I am to strict or to often saying no and giving him a "time out".
Here I would look at how and who you were previously in other instances where you had to make a decision between being lenient and strict. If your timing is off where you were lenient in a moment where you should have been more strict and strict in a moment where you should've been more lenient -- then you are sending mixed signals. What can then also happen is that you were for instance lenient "at the wrong time", which opened up a door to excessive behaviour of some type which you then addressed with too much strictness -- because you didn't see/realise that you actually invited this behaviour within your previous decision-making. Then you realise you were too strict, go into guilt -- which then next time again influences your decision to be more 'lenient' instead of investigating the moment here and adressing it accordingly. If your 'timing is off' -- it might look like your approach is not working and not getting results which makes it easy to go into giving up. Though if you just change your timing but keep your approach -- you might find that you can come to a point of 'harmony' within it all.



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Anna
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Anna » 09 Mar 2014, 10:14

Very cool perspective Leila. This is useful for me in working with children as well.

Thanks.



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Antoaneta
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Antoaneta » 09 Mar 2014, 16:34

Yea, cool perspective Leila. I used to struggle a lot with those two points. Now that you mention it in those words it makes sense why I was struggling to "manage" children when I worked in the after school program. I was coming from the point of instability because I wanted to create fun for them, like befriend them (be on the same level as them- connect with them) and when they saw that I had no rules as the foundation of being safe, respectful and so on because actually I did not know/understand at that time that there had to be a consistent stability and that they can be my equal- but I am still the one who creates guidance for them because as children they are still learning how to be considerate and respectful- they turned chaotic and did whatever they wanted . And then I tried being strict and I was not taken seriously.
So it has been a process for me to understand and see how I my starting point of the expected behavior needs to be set down and understood and followed through- and then of course create/present fun opportunities for them to learn.



Lana
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Re: Am I raising a wimp?

Postby Lana » 09 Mar 2014, 21:18

Here I would look at how and who you were previously in other instances where you had to make a decision between being lenient and strict. If your timing is off where you were lenient in a moment where you should have been more strict and strict in a moment where you should've been more lenient -- then you are sending mixed signals. What can then also happen is that you were for instance lenient "at the wrong time", which opened up a door to excessive behaviour of some type which you then addressed with too much strictness -- because you didn't see/realise that you actually invited this behaviour within your previous decision-making. Then you realise you were too strict, go into guilt -- which then next time again influences your decision to be more 'lenient' instead of investigating the moment here and adressing it accordingly. If your 'timing is off' -- it might look like your approach is not working and not getting results which makes it easy to go into giving up. Though if you just change your timing but keep your approach -- you might find that you can come to a point of 'harmony' within it all.
yes I also see the timing as the problem and I am still searching for that point of harmony. unfortunately I am kind of unable to distinguish important things from not important things or situations, this is following me since my childhood. if I had to read a text for the school or studies and I had to mark the keywords I was always confused, cause all words seemed equally important to me. same with houselholding, I start in the kitchen and end up in the bedroom, but I haven't done anything properly. I am fighting this for many years, and it got better, but it's still far away from perfect. at least my child has what I never had, a stable surrounding, rituals, meals with his parents at the table etc. it is not always superclean here, but I have a child, a dog and a cat, so it's impossible to get everything neat. I grew up in chaotic circumstances and this still affects me, and is not to be removed only by a decision or self-will, but by years and years of practice. as I said I am still not able to distinguish, means I do everything the way I have learned it over the years, practically. it's like building a house by yourself, lots of work and dedication. I am glad the day care center is offering lectures in parenting (done by an older educationalist, seems to be a balanced lady) for free and I am taking part when ever I can, cause I can ask specific questions there. I know the parenting interviews are usefull, and I have listened to some of them, but sometimes I just miss the relation to the real life, to some specific problems. I just can't find (hear) the answer to my questions in pure theory and need someone to talk to, or at least to write, like we are doing here.




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