Weekly Project - Creating Ripples on the Web: ##milgramexperiment

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Andrea Rossouw
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Weekly Project - Creating Ripples on the Web: ##milgramexperiment

Postby Andrea Rossouw » 23 May 2015, 14:45

Hi,

i the topic for this week with be ' Obedience to authority figures and the Milgram experiment'

We had a very cool chat about this topic and we decided to share the chat here - because so many interesting perspectives opened up from the chat, which we wanted to share here to give people more contextual information with regards to 'Obedience to Authority'

> Obedience to authority figures
Specifically using the following reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

So this in itself opens up a very interesting view into the human tendency to follow and obey authority. Something to also consider in relation to the question about 'obedience to authority' - and this is something I will bring up on the chat - is that even though the tests showed that a substantial amount of people (In Milgram's first set of experiments, 65 percent (26 of 40) of experiment participants administered the experiment's final massive 450-volt shock) - were willing to administer high shocks - Lets equate this to obedience in society in general (to authority) - meaning: as society there is definitely a general higher percentage - more like 99% of people who are always obedient to authority.
So this is something we can look at that the difference between 'obvious danger' which is where the other percentage in the study put their foot down and 'not such obvious danger where in society we would inflict suffering/pain/disregard on others is due to what we don t see does not hurt me etc....

So in our blogs/vlogs we can look at the initial study and what we see this shows about us but also the general societal obedience to authority where it comes from why is it more prevalent as a general rule of existence within us. Also the aspect of observing within ourselves then where do we obey authority blindly in our day to day lives, where do we obey the authority which is our minds i.e pre-existing rules of behaviour within us, and where do we draw the line on a day to day basis on what we accept and what we don t. This could also tie in nicely with the cat punching saga where we as society are more and more not drawing lines between acceptable behaviour but for some such as people who reacted to the cat punching a line would only be drawn if it is something cute like a cat or ‘precious’ to ones own life. But if cats are being hurt every day in cosmetic testing then we don t flinch because it is a matter of what I don t see does not hurt me . So if we were to run our own experiments we would find varying degrees (which would be our blogs/vlogs on personal response patterns) of what is my threshold and how did I set it up.

Here we could also draw the parallel between what constitutes a shock within our personal process we will allow internal abuse in the forum of thoughts, belief systems, fears, self-talk etc but will only shock when it gets to a certain voltage what is the voltage for each one of us? Withdrawal, depression, physical pain, loss&.

So what I was looking at with regards to this topic is for us to obviously investigate and show the results of many other research topics around 'obedience' and basic brainwashing -> this will obviously yield many interesting fields of research conducted already froma system perspective of why people respond the way we do to authority now from our perspective we can obviously expand on our understanding of what does it mean to have authority within oneself either as me as authority directing me as the mind OR the mind directing me as the authority

So the intesting thing that stood out for me - obviously - with regards to bringing it back to self -is for each one to maybe explore also what is our authority - meaning

For me the perspective is in law and how the structure is set up as that we are in a military occupation which most people have no understanding of whatsoever but since that is my field of study then I understndstand how the structure is one of authority and hierarchy within the entire system

if each one look at their relationship to authority within themselves and had to define it - some's authority would be based on fear - for example using fear towards self to get moving such as if I dont do X then Y will happen to me,
obviously there are many examples of authority - for some authority might be Bernards voice in their head lol

so everyone within the govererment falls into that and within the corporate world and the schooling is militarized

some basic conditioning on 'punishment' then as a motivation to do or not do something

Yes, fear comes up for me

or no authority, or sarcasm, or sabotage or only if it makes me feel good, or to please desteni etc...

yes it's the reason why we do something

so lets open it up and see what everyone 'sees'

I'm seeing that this fear of authority was ingrained as a child

yep that's the whole construct/illusion of authority as self-proclaimed 'power' and 'rules' to obey - so we are taught to obey that without ever questioning it, indeed.

so look at the president as the commander and chief and it goes all the way down

this is something similar to what you and I spoke about - the shift from the dad authority in the head to you and your husband becoming partners in self and relationship/partnership authority - finding your way

If we didn't accept the parent as the authority, would we have accepted the system as the authority structure?
yeah definitely cool, I've been wanting to take on the point of 'punishment' as well because it is ingrained within the concept of someone having such 'right' or 'faculty' of punishing others by virtue of laws, regulations, set-ups in the system that are still belief systems anyways, and so how we don't question the 'authority' these figures have to 'impose such punishment'

Another authority that is very strong but seldom considered as such, is the authority of 'the group' as in peer pressure for example. That is probably some of the most obedient experiences I've had where I've compromised myself and others because of obedience to group-authority, especially as a child and teenager

what I see is happening in general, and in the Milgram experiemnt, is that the people are placing the authority and so responsibility outside of themselves. So you say someone or something else is response (hmmm.... the mind? lol) for what I am doing.

so for example what have we seen even on the Leadership forum for many years - an ongoing exploration to identify each person’s real authority that is calling the shots

so then where does this imprint come from..which was the heaven existence and how it was layered and that we are living in that now in the same structure

I've recently been writing a DIP assignment on anger, where I realized that virtually all justifications of anger that I had comes back to childhood experiences with adults who would justify anger as an appropriate response to the child misbehaving

yes an interesting dynamic there - which I highlighted in the copy and paste from email - is firstly how as you say if an authority tells us it is ok we continue - and as we noticed a strange zoning out happens - like a demon almost takes over and either drives pleasure or drawn on basic survival aspects - making it 'ok' to hurt others

yep, and how in the idea of authority as someone 'superior' or 'above' oneself is already in that defining oneself in separation of that 'authority' as lesser/inferior - so one in fact gives the authority to the 'authority' figure when one does not recognize what self-authority is, and instead the same patterns of mind-system/world system is recreated

So - the outer authority gets transferred inside and thereby is recycled and continued

But that also doesn;t mean the child would have self-authority, because it may not have the example. So it's up in the air.

yes so it is seeing who we are within relationship with our parents, and how that plays out into relationships with everyone else and then the world itself, its always about relashionship dynamics, lol, as has been said here , fundamentally our relationship with our mind which is preprogrammed from childhood

also like someone is watching like god or allah and so we have to keep in line

Here I see the obedience to a God in my head that I used to believe in. Everything that happened to me I thought it was done by god/Jesus and now I see that it was more a projection of blame and obviously to not take responsibility for myself and my life 100%

it is also having such authority to abuse, which also justifies a lot of the abuses we impose to this world 'just because we are humans' as if we had the one and only say on how we use the resources, animals for our benefit.

so the child does not naturally have the ability to be a self-authority and must be taught?

fear of survival as authority plays a major role

and then I got married to X I had some resistance to change the name because I went to the other polarity. Now, as within o without, the authority in/is me

and also subservience to the one an only god as the mind there, so as to always keep a comfortable bubble of 'it is not up to me' indeed.

in the example, I can easily see myself thinking, "Oh well, the person running the study is responsible. I am just a victim. They are the one who will get in trouble for this. "

yes exactly where God within religion is the ultimate authority, and separation from our own authority

so what is interesting for example for me about the cat punching story is that it shows many dimensions to 'authority' in society - firstly how we have numbed ourselves to 'caring/giving a fuck' to the point where cat punching (just using this as an example as we are all on the same page) bcomes funny - then other people will react BUT only because the authority inside them was an emotional reaction

it is the 'get out of jail free' card - so long as we can say an authority told us to do it, or we were following orders - we are somehow able to play the game of 'i didnt know better/i wasn't qualified' - and in this case i see 'authority' as ANYTHING that we listen to and allow to make determinations for us - beginning with our own thoughts and energetic movements

yes so when oppressed become the oppressor when they move up the pyramid of control even though they say they would never abuse if they got to that spot

exactly, fearing punishment upon 'recognizing' someone/something as authority

I was considered by my father and others as cheeky because of not vesting worth in authority/church authoriTIES. So, what I reseached was wether I performed the cheeky personality on purpose as a way to cope with ppl wanting to force their laws upon me.

Fear is an ultimate authority

I'm not an expert, though I can say it would be a hell of a lot better if a child has many examples and the environment is one of self-authority/ self-direction.

We are so extremely obedient to fear

the god/jesus in my head was a mask of fear so I never really faced them/me until Desteni

questions where the origin of such comfortable facade of 'authority' exists in, of course in our minds as a construct imposed onto an organization/person/experience that we allow to direct us, so that's where mind directs, mind rules over common sense

Money has complete authority over us, I have seen in myself how I behave when money is the issue, to the point that I will become very subservient

I never respected 'authorities' much in my life, and if I feared them, I simply continued to do things behind their back. But fear and group pressure, that got me good.

I would say most people are and get back by cheating on their taxes or something like that

and in a country like Portugal where religion is so acceptable no one would ever help me to face my fear. Fear is ingrained

yes i see money as the physical manifestation of 'energy' as it was in the heaven dimensions - same core concept

myself as well, i can trace most of my anger from my childhood memories. having been brought up in a typical African culture where as a child, an adult had the absolute authority and if i/a child dared question, then this was perceived as a disrespectful child and deserved harsh ways of discipline like physical caning etc. the adult around me literally 'barked/screamed' at me almost...all the time. as a mother, this comes up often so clearly when i embody a memory fully plus all the emotions that were contained in it within how the adult that approached me when i did not obey

Probably Spanish Inquistion memories too

so even in DIP and Desteni what are we constantly finding out about and realigning is each persons authority - and what did Bernard stand as most of the time - he would often tell you shit that confused the crap out of you - lol - just like the tester telling the person to shock - and then for months people would be completely confused by what B said to them - and then sometimes a person just has an 'aha' moment where they realized B was testing their self-authority

so it can be approached from the self-authority as in 'who determines I am: mind/energy or self-physical directive hereness' - and by finding out where we still give our self-authority away to the mind, we also recognize what being one's actual authority is ll about, not hierarchy or 'power' but enabling ourselves to be self-directive - in common sense of course

In line with what was suggested where 'Fear is the Ultimate Authority' - if we did not allow the fear, we would not accept the authority.

there were probably memories from the dictatorship and the state police - still today there are traces of it where people fear to talk about challenging topics

When you challenge someone, you see how they are, really. Just like with the Milgram experiment

v good point, so fear is the trigger point for most

very interesting and so many people still go through that, not only in Africa but in traditional societies in general

That was one of the coolest realizations I had in relation to Bernard after having had much fear towards him; that he will be whatever I need him to be for me to walk my process - after that, he didn't have to scare me lol

that's a cool topic to approach for this week's project and so approach us to this cultural setting as well

it was fascinating how the idea of 'someone knows better than me' in the Milgram experiment defined everything as well

knowledge as authority, instead of common sense

the last few days I have been looking at why people are not getting what we have to say - to place it simplistically - what can we do differently - I mean we have said everything in 100 different ways and people are stil like WHAT? lol so I was looking at how do we get the message across and what stood out for me was for us to simply continue showing people how we have become our own authority - (simplified tem to describe everything we do
- taking ourselves and the bull by the horns)

so we can also explore that, for example how things with 'great authority' plastered upon them are not questions like religions, banking systems, law systems, education systems
Also, often adults don't even question why they're doing it. They just assume that its appropriate - and it also compromises themselves, constantly having to be these mean people controlling their children, like this idea that children are 'bad' and have to be 'broken down' to be 'built up' to engage in society 'correctly'

so for example we continue showing people how we have faced the same difficult times everyone else is facing and we changed and we are satisfied with the change

also we can look at what we still do because we think we are supposed to do or "they" will punish us....we always get that's illegal ! when people don't understand what that term means

yes investing in our own process is the best investment. The results will lead to many outflows in the world.

i have noticed small changes in those around me, in 'finding their way' even if they aren't fully aware of it themselves yet.

Yes God know all and one had to submit to that.

i can relate to this also, not with the caning, but with having young kids, sometimes i would feel like my mother if a certain thought came up, this doesnt happen now, not sure if it is because the children are older or if i have let go of that construct.

to be legal means you are granted the priviledge to use something that belongs to them

Yes I am also noticing that this is what has the strongest impact

I agree as many might have lost the perspective of what it means to first identify all the points we had abdicated our authority to, and only see the 'end results' as well. So by sharing the past and current processing one can expand the perspective of what it means to go walking from a. to b so to speak, so this can be done in the chats as well of self-empowerment, to discuss ...self-authority (and hangouts too)

so for example I am noticing people going back in time with their blogs - where they pick old things from the past and walk the time line of change showing how you use to do it and what you realized and what you changed

many basics are lacking in our understanding indeed, it's all based on how this knowledge is transmitted as an 'authority' by an 'authority' too

And what it means to be one's own authority in relation to being 'the-author-of-me' is also that one first has to understand the 'script'/story' one is already living - the fact that we're NOT already the active authors of our own stories, but are following fictional tales of horror and fantasy - stories about ourselves that we've accepted to be real, but that are illusions
and what is cool there is I would say to do a series - showing as much as you can the details - what would you want to see if you were a member of the public - one blog saying 'I changed my relationship patterns' - this is not as effective as a series - where you take each point and show how you changed it (for example)

I always am amazed how people's bodies cower when they walk into court and how much fear they have and become totally different and forget what they are told to do just by intimidation

cool perspectives there, from being 'the child' to then being the 'parent' which means walking the cycle from 'having parents as 'authority'' to 'becoming the 'authority' as parents' and how this hierarchical structure can be redefined on who we are going to be as parents and so how do we stand with children to change such hierarchical structure in the family

I used to believe that if I asserted my own authority, it would make me be unpopular and talked about behind my back, but I realised very quickly what I was fearful of was my own projection of how I used to view authority figures as 'not very nice/mean nasty people, that were against me' in some way..lol

that's what we also had found in relation to the political movement, the fact that only few ppl are participating wihin the political process, b/o ppl not seeing themselves as authority, but the law and/or rules.

just happened yesterday to a friend and he fucked up bad even after much coaching and feeling confident completely lost it

I can relate to that, especially with the kids, because I used to hate authoritarian adults lol

so self-authority, is the ability to make decisions, independently, meaning not to be persuaded/moved or compromised by outside forces. And the ability to assess new information given by other people, measure the value and worth of it, and use it, without be moved or manipulated by the information, through reactions, emotions and feelings. That's my statement

"where you take each point and show how you changed it (for example)" - you mean about authority or any point walked? (Yes a point walked - which each of us have many examples)

and that is why I think these exercises of each one taking the lead in something is a great way to get the people who have anxiety over authority or giving direction or being responsible

that's a cool way to place it - how one changes the relationship to 'living,' to 'work', to 'family', to 'relationships', to 'addictions', to 'knowledge'
Yes, first you have to understand the story that you're already in - to even be able to re-write it - then once you understand it, that empowers you to start re-writing it, because then you also know/can see what to re-write and what to keep

but when people for example start trying to re-write themselves, like through "The Secret" and positive affirmation, it fails - because they hadn't sorted out the underlying story - that which was governing them

yes, cool - I've been wanting to make a vlog about having removed an extensive chunk of anger from my life

when I had to go to court a few months ago in a case against someone who stole from me - I found that I went into obedience and inferiority in a way because court is not a place that I had faced more than once in my life.

also what comes up with actually recognizing one's authority is that; yes we will face the consequences of everything we actually direct, there will e no ability to 'blame' others and this is the point that is the most 'concerning' as there is no longer anything/anyone to pass the ball of fire to

we can tell people what to do and give them all the tools - but actual self authority cannot be faked - and if tested or shaken will collapse if it is not the actual expression of the being - and here i see that having REAL standing examples lends an extra and often missing dynamic - to actually see in the physical what self-authority is - there is a kind of resonance there

Yes that's part of my "new information" because it is new, when I learn my story as you said

Accepting authority as a way out to not have to be self-responsible and stepping out of the comfort-zone - Accepting authority out of fear of making mistakes. Standing in the shadow. In relation to religion I see an automatic acceptance of not even consider that the authority can be questioned

walking a process is then required like we want to show in this group effort

so we are not going to speak to much about 'authority ‘per say - other than maybe a blog about authority - because that will come across as 'full of it' lol - what I am referring to is you realise that you have faced a certain point and are mastering self authority - and then in blogs share the steps of how you have done it in points

Yes and there are many pictures from watching movies and tv and goes back to serfdom etc where your life was at stake

I can relate to that and before I would even deny anger existed in me, lol, I wasn't 'seeing it'
My daughter is now 2.5, at the 'terrible twos' bracket, where nothing is left untouched, 'exploration and discovery' is now full speed! in the beginning, i also at times shouted at her in anger, in the same way it happened to me as a child, the words are at times so accurate and the tonality of my voice just the the adults around me used to. i must say, this has been one of the most...challenging points iv had to walk in my process thus far and my children has kept me grounded where i dont have to succumb into the same cycle. where i simply consider the reality of what it is that they are doing and if its not compromising to any of us, then i allow.

and remember what B said about sharing - you dont have to necessarily wait until you have completely changed a point - you can simply state that you are working on something and the following things you have changed and the following you are still working on BUT within yourself do not start a series about 'change' if you are not going to see it through - then you discredit yourself to yourself and obviously on the internet

anger has a lot of forms - with me it was just so all-consuming that I couldn't deny it, it would be like denying the Sun, lol

Very cool - you are stopping an entire generational and ancestral cycle from being re-created
so our writings become cool challenge - self in the form of writings questioning and asking where is the movement

yes I find that now being in a position of authority as the director/ owner of the business and having two or three other people to direct, this can be a challenge , without having been a manager or studied business or management, I have to consider the principles we use here at Desteni as the power behind my decisions, but this is not always easy

My father was a sergeant in the army so was brought up in a very militarized fashion of being yelled at and told what to do

the main backchat that always steps up before i react in anger when my children do something i consider 'inappropriate' is ''why cant she listen to what im saying' almost like a begging to submit to my authority.

did that result in a lot of anger in the family?

: also the benefits on that then, because we have been so conditioned to the idea of 'authority' as the policeman that can hit you to death, that even the word has been tainted, instead of realizing it as: we are the authors/we write what we are going to live/we become the directors of our destiny - so that it can be acknowledged as the 'power'/ability each one has within themselves -...

...if we all did this in common sense = no need for fake external 'authorities' or institutions etc.
and I think also what many in the group still do is face a difficulty but then keep quiet - even if it is 'how to use the internet' through to a personal point - if you see someone who you appreciate for the work they have done or they have faced something and you experience the same thing - have a chat with them, lets connect and ask questions/share

In some ways I 'wished' I had more discipline in my childhood - to me this represented care

the externalizations would no longer be necessary. who would even need a 'police force' in a society of fully self directing beings?

so also then this 'authoritarianism' based on our inability to recognize our self-authority, cool point

it is interesting that in the system there arent many young people in authoritive figure in companies - and not so many women. The general perception of an authorative figure is a man and older (more than 30) - which fits in the images of a male god/jesus

yes my father was also a sergeant for a few years

the funny thing is I wasn't disciplined at all to do things for myself because I was so traumatized by the loud voice and energy that I felt inept to do anything

in any form of shape, we have been very conditioned on that seeking for the messiah just because of standing in the 'mess I am' complex needing to be saved/guarded by others

Something else to consider, that what we typically think is an authority figure: a general, shouting, anger, tough, male, etc... is only one image. But the same playout happens with, I would say, all the emotions, feelings (positive), and the mind as a whole. So the mind, can play sweet, innocent, kind, to manipulate for it's purpose. So it's really not limited to one image, but applies to...the entire situation where we are not fully directive, with the physical in a position of responsibility. )

yes that is definitely so - there is a point of female stigma when it comes to the word 'authority'

most police is also men

so what the Milgrim experiment showed us - is that if you place yourself in the shoes of the person giving and the person receiving the instructions - look at all the dimensions involved in how the person responded the way they did - this will help in our own blogs to explore how we make decisions - as 'the authority' for example the guy being told to shock - wow he probably had 10 different conscious, subconscious, unconscious and quantum
level points of information bombarding him into one decision - shock or not - such as money (I am getting paid for this), fear of not seeing it through, being seen as weak, childhood memories of being bullied etc...

that's exactly what I've seen in relation to anger as well - that there's a justification of anger being an appropriate response to someone making a mistake/not behaving how I think they should behave - but then we can have a look and ask: does it assist me to change if someone shouts at me? lol No.

yes it is interesting how we perceive things - my friends used to think I was so cool because my parents let me do stuff they couldnt, and yet I was secretly envious of them

that's another layer of 'authority' imposed as fear to explain, where many might not realize how one ends up obeying where there is this underlying 'punishing' factor again IF something is not done/satisfied as requested.. yet the actual fear is that there is no compliance and so rebellion from the 'subjugated' one

so as we work with in SRA 2 and 3 onwards where we start seeing the behind the scenes dynamics behind one decision

good point, I still face difficulties with the technical stuff

I would consider comercial posts/tunes and tv media brainwashing

But what is interesting for me, is I became very independent early on in life and took charge of myself

the 'enforcers' and those in positions of keeping the current structure intact have historically been males - the 'lawmakers' - whereas the nurturing and caring has typically been a 'female' dominated field

and that is why we all know sometimes when we have to make a decision - we can feel and hear inside the mind many coives bringing up information, doubts, fears, hopes, concerns - all resulting in us literally freezing infront of the decision and then we postpone the decision

absolutely buy now! Only now! Don-t miss this opportunity!

Yes that is probably why I developed the rebel personality so well

definitely, also how the most immediate point of fear leads to fear of dying/being harmed/abuse and fear of losing money - which goes hand in hand with the reasons why we end up obeying to authorities even if it is not best for all - yet it is how we've constructed the system to 'keep us all in line'

maybe you thought you had to be on the defensive all the time

oh that opens also a cool layer for this topic too, rebellion as a way to oppose authority and how that can end up in yet another trap that Confirms 'authorities' by opposing them, so confirming 'they have the power' and so 'trashing that power' which leads nowhere
[21:41] <> interesting point - how when facing a decision we sometimes hear the voices of various personalities within us pulling us one way or another based on their own justifications - so instead of having an actual self authority - we have instead a warped form of democracy where our 'popular opinion' is swayed by our internal conversations - we keep the counsel of 'lobbyists' who lobby our...
...authority for self interest

this topic is reminding me of something I said/wrote. That you can only manipulate yourself. Meaning that whenever it appears someone is manipulating you. That is not so. It is in fact you manipulating yourself, even though another person may be saying something to trigger you. it is still you, and your trigger.

right - and also interestingly another dimension of you look at it - is that because over many many years since childhood we were programmed with conflicting ideas about how to move self (authority) when that moment comes and the thoughts start moving about 'yes', 'no', 'maybe' - it kind of short circuits the brain lol and then what do we do - turn to the other person - who is the authority

We should seriously consider, to tag our post with #newworldnext week - from corbett report and Then we get mentioned there...

but then I also inherited the sins of the father by becoming like him wanting to be the authority on things which is a real polarity with the rebel

so another reason to get to the bottom of these fears

yes _ I can relate to that from my experience of a 'panic attack' in the middle of the night last week and not being able to go back to sleep, it was a build up of supressed fear of decision making and worry

interesting yep, oh and that also opens up the authority organisms liek FDA and government in general have upon what one eats/consumes/what one is 'allowed' to do etc. where no self-responsibility is implied, but only IF this or that organization as 'authority' approves of it - neverminding who/what got paid to say 'yes' to making something 'legal'

there are some tags mentioned in the last post from Corbett report - us it... to promote us/LIG gosh :-)
Yes , putting oneself in anothers shoe, in this case, i always put myself in the shoe of my children and question myself how id experience myself if someone did to me what i was doing to them, ie shout. and man...i wouldnt want that at all. so this in itself has been great support to slow down and stop and consider and direct a moment differently.

cool (not about the panic attack) - so we can share here how you saw the point about 'going back in time and assessing the time line - to see at what point (next time) to start slowing down and pay attention to the background noise in the mind that starts building

I don't suggest using that tag as a spam on all posts. But cool to use to use it on posts where it is relevant, for something that would be cool for them to look at.

are you listening to the Atlanteans on the panic system because I got really panicky when I started to listen to that bring up they systems in me

first as one thought, then 5, then anxiety, then postponement, then panic attack, then depression...

The figure of a CEO in a company is also seen and practiced as a point of separation - however above the CEO are the investors in the company so he is not "free" to do whatever he wants. And behind the investors (or asset and wealth manager) are those with money who in the current system are empowered to take authorative decisions that are not best for all.

that reminds me very much of how in moments of 'trouble' we always seek something/someone 'out there' for solutions - hence god, or any other 'guru' for it - instead of walking the choices/decisions made and so realize oh well I did this to myself so, I take the authorship of this and walk the music I mean face the music lol

I'm walking the same point, only with my partner lol

the lobbyists in government are the externalization of the backchats and personalities we allow to have influence over our own being/authority. the most effective ones get the most say and write the laws that we then follow and are ruled by

the system will definitely change when people are empowered with money to do what is best for all, and this principle becomes the authority
yes, its about changing and stopping the recurring build up of supressed emotions, to take things just one step at a time

yes the full circle - nobody is actually 'at the top' - it all comes back
and something I saw a while back - but is obviously not so easy to do when you are IN the shit storm - is how one realizes panic, fear really does not change anything - you still have to DO it - afterwards we look back and laugh at how we overreacted

and yes to act as soon as possible, to stop the consequence of procrastination

<> well said , and very well paid, which is also showing 'who/what' gets the authority in the word: godmoney

godmoney yes i like that

Yes , they all look up to one another

well, in the end, this whole enslavement process we're walking out of is precisely by recognizing all the false authorities we've blindly followed throughout our lives too

and so by identifying 'what' triggered me to 'follow' it will also be supportive to see who/what are we sill giving away our authority to

godmoney wants you to want momoney

theres also the point of 1 or a few countries who have almost absolute authority on what happens to other countries and their resources like is the case of 3rd world countries

this sort of creating ripples could be a big point/turning point for us... all in all

a point that i find interesting is how often the elite or those in charge become antagonized - we in fact demonize those who we see as 'ruling us' - and this only creates more powerlessness/separation. rarely do we see examples of really and truly getting to understsand power and the elite and how it all fits in the context of the bigger picture - we we, all of us, the great majority of...beings - have equally played a part in the allowance of our 'enslavement' by these 'elite'

of course there are some aspects we can't just 'rebel to' or we'll get of course in a particular conflict - yet by understanding the mechanism that makes it 'work' as a source of 'fear' as authority/power over others, then we can ensure we prevent such 'fear' as 'something above me' from existing within us, and rather recognize the responsibility we have to it/ as it, so yep, it is also to...share the perspective of how there's no one really 'outside' of ourselves that can be pushing a gun to do something, we do it ourselves, we accept the fear as a reason to act or not act

I would say that it already is ... though change takes time and consistency, but we're building it as we speak

The false authority, is whenever you follow someone. If you follow someone that is walking in principle, that is also false authority. It is only when you walk equal with them, which requires humility, ironically, then will authority be potentially existent with you. The authority can only be a principle

, I was listening to the quantum physical series part 2 this morning in the early hours, and I realised that this is what we are learning here. it is always about self observation/ change, not changing others. I learned oriental facial diagnosis in my shiatsu training, but the focus was on diagnosing our clients in balances and face and not so much our own!

this is what came up when opening this subject today, how the immedite association of 'authority' is to 'people in power in the system' in my case, but when seeing the greater picture 'their' power is only possible due to us accepting and allowing such illusion of authority as power and ability to abuse too - so, it takes two to tango in that definitely

as much as we see statements of how the elite are a cancer - we do not honestly speak about what would happen if the elite and all of the current structures that they operate were to be removed - whether we would in fact be able to be trusted to do what is best for all or would we scramble and turn against each other in the absence of the 'authority' that was in place?

have you guys seen the pictures of world leaders in the toilet? It is an interesting perpective of how authority is a belief and we are all the same, starting with the basic actions and huma needs http://dangerousminds.net/comments/worl ... the_toilet

cool , each moment one fail to direct oneself but allow some other 'entities' to direct oneself, then one loses 'authority' as directive principle

Yes it is very fascinating to find out how they enslaved us by all the hidden contracts that we accept and allow and people are terrified to find out what they acquiesced to

ok cool - and I very much agree ...

99 + 1 %

reminds me of when Bernard would say. all men shit.

It is cool that you guys are working on that aspect of it all - much to yet be disclosed

yep and so a very cool wake up call it is to see where we have to stand up, and not allowed oneself to be carried over by the 'flow'

You can easily substitute the word authority for responsibility, to test yourself and see.

lol no way we all know that world leaders don't have to shit like common people.

And it is very interesting to see children challenging adults, as they dont have the programme yet integrated and automated.

yes it is a very tough job because it is so entrenched in legalease but trying to simplify it for people in terms they can understand

If you are in blame, you are not in responsibility, and therefore have no authority. You just follow/react.

yep just like religion really, some people have 'kept themselves in line' because of fear, because no other thing was able to at least suggest some principles to them, so, in the fear of being punished by god they at least stopped them from following their most innate instincts, and so yes prevent some abuse as well, not that the starting point is supportive of course - yet the...

self-authority is quite a point yet to be walked by all of us as humanity, it's never about the 'government' but where we have lacked self-direction/self-authority in ourselves

it is just a language and vocabulary that there isnt anywhere else, very little legal reference in the common things we do in life - or at least that we know of

yes the word authority is like a power game in itself between the communicators and within self between the voices in the head

I would suggest to also check how the fear can only be created as a facade to not see that yes we have been all capable of co-creating this mess, so it is words and as such we can redirect and redefine how we live words and how we use them, so the fear point upon seeing the legal language can be directed to understanding it and so redirecting it

government, religion, money - the starting points were faulty of course and resulted in further enslavement - but they were all addressing a core point - that when we as beings are not stimulated correctly - that in the absence of a kind of control, we have NOT deigned to establish rational control of ourselves and have been vulnerable to energy (emotions, irrationality). we dont have to...

we so accustomed/programmed to fearing that we actually fear not fearing.

like or agree to it - but have to be honest with the fact that self-authority has never existed in this world

one can also look at how knowledge becomes authority too instead of common sense - and how we value each other based on the levels of 'authority' we impose to one another as knowledge, instead of rather focusing on developing and encouraging the self-authority development

like for example, fearing what will happen to oneself if one does not fear God lol

great point... sometimes common sense doesn't get a chance against 'knowledge'

I have been watching House of Cards with Kevin Spacey and it is a great example of the power playouts and evil disregard of others due to power hungry authority figures, quite an e

I would say that, the self-authority has been a disaster. And at some level of ourselves, we chose what we have created so far. There was an acceptance and allowance. Which is a level of authority/responsibility. So I would say instead that what hasn't existed yet is self-authority that is best for all. We have had so far the SELF-AUTHORITY which is Ego, that is worst for all.

learning how to direct things is a very big challenge because you are in fact giving yourself the authority to do that

eye opener to realise that this is probably what goes on in the minds of these people!

yep god as authority/religion as authority is a biggie indeed, which only keeps the desire/fear construct very well placed and so the origin of many abuses. Gee talking about that reminds me of the abuses imposed by 'authority figures' in religious places, but just because 'they are the father' or 'the pope' it is not considered as 'an abuse'

yes - or money (as God)

yes interesting how much fear 'self-authority' evokes

so now when i look at elites or the powerful - the ones people love to hate and demonize - i rather see a handful of people who are not evil, but were part of an immense and complex program of control, and these people themselves are enslaved to the lack of self-awareness and self-authority within existence - they are in a way the managers of a life support system allowing for a basic,...

it has always been a very deliberate no-go area both within our programming and in our societal and goverments

and that is why in the mind it is so difficuilt to change because by changing we are taking back our authority - almost I have noticed like a fail safe switch that goes off

how to really put it to judges is to ask them 'who gives you the authority'? because it is you

when you use the word responsibility instead of authority, I notice a shift in me in what that entails for me. Because authority, today, does not imply responsibility, just power. So it's to align the point to living in principle and so responsibility, coupled with the "power," which has to be humble, equal and one.

in your blog/s redefine the word authority

yep that's what came up in the beginning of the chat too, so it's cool you mention so that we can all make sure we are clear toward such word to being with to then be able to redirect it/share solutions in our vlogs/blogs as we share on this subject.

maybe to redefine the word so it does not have the energy but mearly that you are the author

yep redefining word authority first for oneself to then walk the point from problem, to solution/redefinition and rewards

fascinating - how this word authority has like a built-in connotation to "others who have more power" instead of "my own point of absolute direction"

let's see the AUTHOR in Authority

and in being the author you are responsible

what surprised me was that it was not the desire for money that fuelled these people, but the desire for power/ absolute authority, as Anu describes he desired

it is interesting that in the word Authority, comes from Author, auto (self)

there is a systematically embedded auto-correct - that corrects us whenever we 'falsely' identify ourselves as the author of authority lol

but also as the character Tusk describes the public are enslaved by money not power

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Anna
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Re: Weekly Project - Creating Ripples on the Web: ##milgramexperiment

Postby Anna » 24 May 2015, 20:46

Becoming The Authority of Your Own Life Through Practical Self-Empowerment. DAY 357
https://vixensjourneytolife.wordpress.c ... t-day-357/



Marlen
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Re: Weekly Project - Creating Ripples on the Web: ##milgramexperiment

Postby Marlen » 26 May 2015, 06:09

Cool point to explore who/what we accept as 'authorities' and instead define ourselves as the authors of such separation so that we can 'rewrite' how we decide to make our world function, dissipating the hierarchies and separations that are mostly 'wired' or embedded in our minds.

Here's a podcast with this perspective on the subject, cool point to bring up: http://www.marlenvargasdelrazo.com/authorship/






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