Externalizing Change: Where is Self in the Equation? - 05 Apr 2017

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Maite
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Externalizing Change: Where is Self in the Equation? - 05 Apr 2017

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[9:01 PM] marlen set the channel topic: Externalizing Change: Where is Self in the Equation? - We'll start 5 after the hour
[9:01 PM] tormod hello
[9:01 PM] marlen hello!
[9:01 PM] aldin hii
[9:02 PM] valentin.rozman Hi :slightly_smiling_face:
[9:03 PM] carlton Hello
[9:04 PM] garbrielle hi everyone
[9:04 PM] mikemcd Got it
[9:04 PM] Thanks garb
[9:04 PM] miranda Hello
[9:04 PM] garbrielle np
[9:05 PM] miranda Thanks Garb, I was also in the LF-chat
[9:05 PM] yoganb Guttentaug
[9:05 PM] tormod this one goes out to the ones i love (lol)
[9:06 PM] darrylthomas Hep
[9:06 PM] tormod hi Darryl !
[9:06 PM] darrylthomas Yo, Tormod!
[9:07 PM] marlen set the channel topic: Externalizing Change: Where is Self in the Equation? -Let's start
[9:07 PM] marlen Hi guys! Today we can all share practical examples and support for this particular pattern of ‘focusing on changing others’ or ‘changing something in the world’ and missing out oneself in the equation, meaning
[9:07 PM] Where the idea of change becomes something we focus to do, impose or expect from others or something ‘out there’ instead of focusing on ourselves, our own process of self-change and self-responsibility.
[9:07 PM] This topic is also quite linked to the hangout that Maite, Matti and myself recorded yesterday in the context of wanting to ‘save another’ in a relationship – and upon reflecting on this pattern, I see how this ‘savior syndrome’ or ‘wanting others to change’ character can be existing in everyone in different ways
[9:08 PM] (link to the hangout for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uJ5aPZEbzk)
YouTube DesteniIProcess
Trying to Save or Change your Partner? - Relationship Success Support
[9:08 PM] For example, where we want to change how coworkers behave toward us, where we want our family members to treat us differently, where we’d like certain institutions and systems of the world change overnight to benefit us, or where it can be again related to one’s partner and imposing the changes we’d like to see ‘on them’ instead of first taking the point back to self
[9:09 PM] So, who can share some examples of this in various scenarios, contexts explaining the problem and solution that you've walked or are still walking in relation to 'taking it back to self' and how that is practically lived?
[9:11 PM] alyson Hi guys, I can join for a while since the clocks have changed here, cool topic and will check out the hangout from Marlen and Maite later :-h
[9:11 PM] marlen that's cool Alyson
[9:12 PM] maite One way I have externalized this point of change is where I will suddenly want to do a big cleaning project
[9:12 PM] anna Actually, I’d say that this is one of the most prominent ways in which we veil ourselves from ourselves throughout our lives. So it is like we see into a mirror, but all we see is what is inside it, not that it IS a mirror and that what we’re looking at is really ourselves. I have had to directively push myself to start doing this and it has been a definitive key in my process - and something that certainly didn’t come naturally.
[9:12 PM] alyson Lol Maite
[9:12 PM] yoganb I have a context to add to the above list, which is when we try to change ourselves, or our inner experience through trying to change the environment or external, whether it be people or things. So seeking self-change through trying to change the trigger to our reactions.
[9:12 PM] maite Where suddenly I can't stand the state of this or that cupboard and it MUST be sorted out NOW
[9:12 PM] lol
[9:13 PM] viktorpersson Okay I have one point – it is about desiring and wanting certain career paths – being worried/fearful that if I pick one – I will miss out on others – and hence compromise my future and what I will be able to do with myself – here I have pushed myself to stop trying to achieve a perfect future 'out there' – and I have instead focused on the WORDS that I want to live as myself that I had projected unto my idea of the perfect future – and live those words HERE in my life – and create the life I want – the me that I want – regardless of what job I end up having
[9:13 PM] mikemcd I can relate. For myself I've identified this as a defensive character exercising self righteousness...which is quite ridiculous and absurd. I realized this reactionary playful is a a result of accepted and allowed Inferiority...which is simply unacceptable. Specific examples would be living with my brother this year...and 'feeling the need...the urge' to tell him what to do all the time. Didn't realize how extensive and deep the reactions went...ironically because we share a lot of similarities....didn't want to see this at first....so created conflict as consequence. Through writing and self self forgiveness in a plethora of ways...I realized my own defensive and offensive nature. My very own amazing disgrace. This changed everything. I am now working in a business development with my brother and our relationship has never been better. The big change was that I had to face my inferiority... inadeqacy...and Man up stop being a pussy
[9:14 PM] "Playout"
[9:14 PM] marlen that's an interesting dimension yoganb where we try and change what 'bothers us' or 'triggers' us instead of first directing oneself to see: ok why is this bothering me, what is triggering inside me, how can I change this so that I stop wanting to change 'that' which is being 'the problem' according to myself in my mind?
[9:14 PM] mikemcd Not playful reactionary
[9:14 PM] aldin Lol, Maite I can relate. And Viktor, cool - same/simmilar here.
[9:14 PM] anna I noticed this ‘russian doll’ construct where first my projection was towards another person. Then behind that, it was my own mind I was projecting onto them, then deeper down, it was dimensions of the mind, and all the way, way down, was myself, an aspect of myself that I didn’t want to face/change/take responsibility for. So it can even be mirrors, within mirrors within mirrors. I mean, even the mind is an externalization
[9:15 PM] mikemcd Ha Maite
[9:15 PM] maite I tend to really get fixated, obsessive about it almost in those moments. So - I started taking that back to self in asking myself when that urge comes up: what is not 'in good order' within me? what have I been neglecting/postponing to sort out inside of myself?
[9:15 PM] mikemcd Can so relate
[9:15 PM] Yes
[9:15 PM] darrylthomas I've given up trying to "change others." I do feel an obligation to better my persuasion skills in communicating ideas with others in universally improving the human condition... along with overseeing personal changes in myself that shows personal growth. I suppose I reckon that changes within and without can occur incrementally or in an instant. I've witnessed both occurring in my experiences.
[9:16 PM] marlen exactly anna I've seen this very much within myself upon stopping a big pattern of seeing all as 'doom and gloom' and when I'd go to for example mexico city, I'd see everyone as chaotic, messy, doom and gloom everywhere - I was there yesterday and didn't see any of that anymore lol, which means it's not like 22 million people changed, I stopped seeing others through eyes of 'despair'
[9:16 PM] very cool point viktorpersson where it's not about 'what you do' but who you are within it, and therefore it's entirely in your hands to change you in relation to a job or position
[9:16 PM] maite I usually then do continue cleaning out the cupboard or whatever it was, cause it did need the cleaning, but I change my stating point and while I clean will also start that process of investigating what's up within me - so doing both the internal and external clean-up
[9:17 PM] mikemcd Nice D, I relate...as I realized letting go wanting to change others..makes everything better for everyone in so many ways
[9:17 PM] marlen maite that's an interesting thing on the cleaning, what was that representing about you or your inner process, what did you find about it? or was it related to something else or just practical assessment?
[9:17 PM] mikemcd Yes Maite
[9:17 PM] Awesome
[9:17 PM] That's been my process too
[9:17 PM] anna Awesome marlen - this is actually something that I’ve found in process distinctly changed that I’ve often wondered about; before process I often felt that situations and places had “atmosphere”, like you said a place being gloomy and then after process that just stopped - and I realized that it was quite a massive veil I had there. Interesting
[9:18 PM] tormod a point of wanting others to not gossip and then falling into the trap of it myself - driving the other day with my sister & folks in a car lol... (karma has it we were stopped by police 20 minutes later with a wrong on our lights of our car....no ticket just words/orders) learned from that...yep !
[9:18 PM] marlen very cool example mikemcd from reacting and basing your relationship with your brother on that, to aligning yourself within and expanding to cowork with him
[9:18 PM] mikemcd Awesome to see and realize how our external environment reflects so much so our internal environment
[9:18 PM] Ya Marlen would have never thought it possible
[9:19 PM] tormod very glad to hear this @mikemcd
[9:19 PM] marlen caught up to what you explained maite, very cool as within so without as well so that for example in my case I would also be 'fixated' on cleaning outside, but had to do a lot of debugging inside as well to also not make it a compulsive thing instead of questioning my starting point in 'having an orderly and clean environment' outside only
[9:19 PM] mikemcd But challenged myself with things....because it did take some time to sort through all my shit that ironically he was really showing...and doing his damndest in so many ways
[9:20 PM] anna I mean it is classic, and I still fall into this one: whenever I start getting annoyed with Viktor and I focus on him and his faults, I can be sure that there’s a point within me that I am judging and mulling over and churning inside myself
[9:20 PM] marjo I have tried to change my husband for many many years, until I saw I have to change my own emotional reactions towards him with self-forgiveness and self-directive changes. There already changed a lot because now I see the same patterns in myself, which I can change. i am still working on it, but is already made a big progress.
[9:20 PM] aldin awesome marjo
[9:20 PM] marlen cool darrylthomas I also have seen this where I focus rather on what I can give, my expression, my words, me and my starting point in interacting with others, what I can learn from others, learning to consider their minds, their lives, their experiences - it's challenging at times for sure! where I used to be very tough-headed, very absolutist, so flexibility and consideration - and humbleness - are key words I'm focusing on applying 'towards others' not being exigent as hell
[9:21 PM] maite Yes - what is fascinating with taking points back to self is that: as soon as you see how you're trying to accomplish/change something out there, but how it actually relates to a point within you, and you can suddenly SEE that point - then the obsessiveness/fixation/energy with which you were trying to change the poing out there, drops - so that is also a cool cross-reference that you've got the point
[9:21 PM] marlen mike can you expand on an example of this 'external and internal' shit to deal with? something that we can read on and see if we find it within us as well
[9:21 PM] joekou i have lived a pattern of trying to change all of my surroundings - whether it is my job, my living situation, the people in my life - have had quite a few times now basically moments where i up and leave - and change my entire world - only to always recreate the same points again because i was actually only trying to run away from myself
[9:21 PM] aldin lol anna - yes, all our reactions to other people reflect/show things we do within ourselves or don't do but would like to but instead of learnign from and expanding ourselves we react in judgement and annoyance.
[9:22 PM] alyson I had a v interesting conversation with someone I met randomly at a party, and it was interesting as we knew each other on a business level only, this guy was v open with me and we talked about personal and world stuff that neither of us would normally chat about among friends at a party, we got on to the subject of pizza gate, and he asked me what I thought allowed people to behave in such a way, and where the desire came from, a v good question, and one I I hadn't considered answering before, so while contemplating this, the first thing I was aware of was, how can I bring this back to self? And I explained this point about not pointing the finger at others and considering where I am still allowing thoughts or behaviour patterns of limitation to abuse my physical body. Interestingly I had he desire for a cigarette, but once I had one puff, I felt so sick, I decided to go to bed early and breath through the experience and let my body have some much needed rest.
[9:22 PM] mikemcd Cool marjo. That's like every girlfriend I ever had up till now in varying degrees....only realized it with the last one
[9:22 PM] viktorpersson Cool – I have experienced that when I stop trying to change a point out there – and instead focus on changing myself – the point out there will start to align and move as I am moving within me – because now I am not approaching the external from within reactions – and then I can more clearly see what would be best for me and others and act on that
[9:22 PM] mikemcd So liberating
[9:22 PM] Lol
[9:22 PM] Makes things way more chill
[9:22 PM] marjo lol mikemcd
[9:22 PM] anna Oh yes joekou that one is classic too lol
[9:22 PM] tormod that is a peculiar thing @maite
[9:23 PM] darrylthomas Im sure many remember how slash and burn my moderation on the old board went. I looked at some old comments... i don't think I convinced many people.
[9:23 PM] marlen marjo awesome indeed, that's a very common one where we neglect focusing on stopping our reactions towards 'the partner' to then be able to stand in stability and support with oneself no longer 'reacting to them' but rather expressing oneself, and who knows, potentially indirectly they can also see other potentials in themselves - without hoping or expecting this to happen of course, but as an 'outflow' of you sharing/expressing you
[9:23 PM] mikemcd Lolol Daryl
[9:23 PM] marjo Sure Marlen
[9:24 PM] mikemcd "Read the damn material"
[9:24 PM] yoganb So when we are managing our inner experience through changing or attempting to change the environment/external this causes problems, because you may be successful or fail to change the environment, and even the success is temporary because the environment will eventually change again. So if happiness, peace or relaxation is only if everyone in the world is happy, good, healthy and taken care of, like a real equal money system, then you will be extremely unhappy while that is not here. So the happiness, peace, relaxation is not real. It is a reaction based on the environment. A real happiness, peace and relaxation is when we make the decision to live these words and so by our self-direction and self-movement = We become/live happiness, peace and relaxation. This is a living word that is not dependent on the environment, situation or people.
[9:24 PM] mikemcd I relate to that with customer service work
[9:24 PM] marlen self-evasion in trying to change 'everything and everyone else' instead of focusing on self joekou cool for sharing that, where are you at in this currently?
[9:24 PM] viktorpersson lol yes interesting @joekou – is it even possible to change our worlds before we change ourselves?
[9:24 PM] mikemcd Lot of self reflection
[9:24 PM] tormod it is like a fragment of the system is collapsing being deleted @maite
[9:25 PM] marlen bam aldin that's a basic 'law' indeed, in spanish we say 'lo que te choca te checa' or 'what bothers you is in you' type of thing, cool reminder to take back to self
[9:25 PM] mikemcd Realizing I am here to assist and can very easily paraphrase and synthesize for others...so their process is shorter...don't have to go through the gauntlet I went through
[9:25 PM] joekou on a more macro level we see this in the ways people often espouse system change - through a new political party or system but still do not consider the common factor of the individual
[9:25 PM] aldin yes, cool marlen, thanks for sharing/expanding on that
[9:26 PM] joekou we tend to think it is better to change entire world systems - because that is apparently easier than individuals changing for themselves
[9:26 PM] anna When looking at the world and blaming the system or the world or people, it helps to remember that we’re all in this together, that everyone is walking process in one way or another
[9:26 PM] sylvia I once started Reiki because I wanted to reach out to others and help them out, when other Reiki participants said they used it on themselves to help themselves I judged them for it. Only a few year slater when I found Desteni I understood that tit is not about what is out there, but what is within me as a reaction on the outside world.
[9:26 PM] adam yep or start a nuclear conflict so as to save face
[9:26 PM] anna Deliberately using the phrase “we” instead of “they” has made quite a difference for me
[9:26 PM] garbrielle I have to go guys, will read later, thanks
[9:27 PM] marlen cool to input the point about 'not blaming' or judging others in those contexts alyson it is that kind of comments that in between casual interactions directs more to a point of self-responsibility, rather than continuing the 'bashing against others' or 'expecting others to change' indirectly, instead of focusing on for example, where we all fit in that equation of abuse as you said
[9:27 PM] mikemcd Definitely anna
[9:27 PM] Me too
[9:27 PM] maite hm, not sure on the mechanics behind it, Tormod - more a point that I have noticed consistently - that as soon as I see the point within me, the energy/obsessiveness towards the external point drops - so I started using it as a cross reference that I've got the point, and so long as I still feel like I really need to get that something/someone outside of me to change - then I haven't yet effectively taken the point back to self yet
[9:27 PM] valentin.rozman Yesterday one member of Jehovah’s Witness came to my door and gave me a leaflet. We started to talk and I explained my perspective on religions, especially on his modality. While talking I noticed how I became energetic and we did all the talking at the main front door. Later I realised how I was not teaching by example and was not very kind since I did not invited him inside and I have also used many of my past experience projections, generalisations and superiority. So I commit to in such cases be more kind and talk to other religious people as one and equal.
[9:27 PM] viktorpersson Cool Maite with the point of release when we are able to 'see' the point within us – last year I suddenly became very enthused by power machines – for seemingly no reason – and it has never been a thing before. Through a chat with Sunette I realized that this desire was actually me on a mind level showing to myslef that new words were opening up – that I was not directing and living – and then the expression in these words was instead channeled into the mind and came out as desire-energy
[9:28 PM] marlen cool point yoganb very common in a desire to change 'the world system out there' and wanting the money systems and rest of it to 'change first' so that I can 'then' apply myself... when it all actually starts with self.
[9:28 PM] mikemcd Yup Marlen and yogan. Tag we are it
[9:29 PM] anna Yes Maite
[9:29 PM] Yes I had the same when I got obsessed with decorating the house
[9:29 PM] mikemcd Awesome stuff Valentin. Seeing how I could do that from time to time to....like come on it...have a seat...want a drink?
[9:29 PM] viktorpersson lol
[9:30 PM] tormod i don't know about the structure/demolition of it @maite it is simply the point of deleting energy/energy relations with SF, and that is "happening" during process/SF... do you agree ?
[9:30 PM] anna Oh and we were just discussing this today as well viktorpersson - why people get obsessed with houses all of a sudden when they reach a certain age, that it is a replacement for life/living/being alive- which everything is really
[9:30 PM] marlen yeah a relevant one sylvia also in relation to meeting religious people, or practitioners of any spiritual path etc - investigating all things and keeping what's best, seeing what we can learn and apply from the principles, where is a common ground and not judge what we might see as 'not beneficial' but rather focus on 'the common ground' in general, which also enables us to create and develop a potential with others, rather than shunning them in the belief of 'you have to change to adopt desteni' type of situation lol
[9:30 PM] carlton I can relate valentin.rozman
[9:30 PM] marlen lol mikemcd yes 'tag we are it!'
[9:30 PM] darrylthomas "Nesting" program, Anna?
[9:30 PM] mikemcd Deep reflection Sylvia that was a biggie for me too
[9:30 PM] anna lol oh yes there’s that too darrylthomas
[9:30 PM] marlen yes anna ! that's a cool life-hack as well lol brings the awareness back to self
[9:31 PM] alyson Lol, I remember the old kid mongo, Darryl, that everyone was scared of, lol!
[9:31 PM] viktorpersson lol
[9:31 PM] mikemcd Lol
[9:31 PM] darrylthomas Deedra and want a house and some land... on the goal board
[9:31 PM] anna I was kind of disapointed when I met darrylthomas in real life that he wasn’t as scary as his online self
[9:31 PM] mikemcd Niice Daryl
[9:32 PM] darrylthomas Lol alyson. Just another keyboard terrorist
[9:32 PM] joekou sometimes when i am really working with a point in me and not getting clear i will go into 'worker mode' and will for instance do all of the stables before other people get to them. in a way expressing my desire for something to get 'done' or some direction to be given to my life lol
[9:32 PM] marlen that's a cool point maite also pushes oneself to see where the 'drive' is coming from as a surge of energy, rather than a stable, grounded and common sensical decision to change/do something - so, one can ask oneself the questions of 'what is the real motivation behind it, what am I trying to achieve with this, is there something I fear in relation to doing or not doing this? and get to know oneself
[9:32 PM] darrylthomas Lol, anna. You were just a sweetie
[9:32 PM] mikemcd Hahaha #KeyboardTerrorist
[9:32 PM] Brilliant
[9:32 PM] viktorpersson lol cool @joekou
[9:33 PM] anna You too darrylthomas - still miss you, hmm maybe that’s something I should look at lol. What it is I see in you that I don’t live as me...
[9:33 PM] alyson Cool Valentin
[9:33 PM] mikemcd Cool JoeKou
[9:33 PM] Work mode is fun
[9:33 PM] tormod indeed ... into rythem
[9:33 PM] joekou doing stables helps me get stable
[9:33 PM] mikemcd And great physical time to move through our Internet points
[9:33 PM] valentin.rozman Yes @marlen for example we can learn much from Jehovah’s Witnesses about how well they are organised, systematic, committed to support the society with regular donations, have very nice presentation material, information translated to almost all languages, have their places to gather etc.
[9:33 PM] mikemcd Externally
[9:33 PM] maite tormod - energy is generated by friction when there is a point of separation - so when you let go of/remove the point of separation, the energy can release - one way of doing this is through Sf, yes
[9:34 PM] darrylthomas we're gonna hook up again. Dont know where... dont know when... :)
[9:34 PM] marlen joekou is that a 'compensation' point though? or focusing too much on doing 'work' out there instead of focusing on oneself?
[9:34 PM] workaholism so to speak
[9:34 PM] mikemcd I've found while out walking daisy the dog to be a fantastic time to roll with self forgiveness and self corrections
[9:34 PM] joekou yes workaholism marlen
[9:34 PM] mikemcd I walk it walk it out
[9:34 PM] Work it out
[9:34 PM] Ha
[9:34 PM] anna Oh yes mikemcd me too - I do it when I walk with Lora or when I drive
[9:34 PM] joekou it is a way where i shift focus away from when i feel frustrated or stuck in other areas of my life - i channel it into 'getting shit done'
[9:35 PM] adam thought you meant rolling literally there mikemcd
[9:35 PM] sylvia Changing the system or wanting to change the education system and the medical system I mostly felt disempowered. So I took another route/approach I would become possessed with people that would follow the rules/ideas of thos esystems and never question it and I wanted to push them into taking responsibility into not being sheeple so to speak. In a way I wanted my puppets to do the dirty work for me. With my parents for instance keep talking about other cures and medicines, but it never worked, people got fed up with me being highly energetic towards them. So still avoiding to face my own part with the system and my opinion about being powerless towards it.
[9:35 PM] anna There is something magical about doing SF while moving
[9:35 PM] joekou so not a solution lol
[9:35 PM] mikemcd Haha adam
[9:35 PM] anna I could see you doing that mikemcd…
[9:35 PM] mikemcd Well I stroll as kind of of how I roll
[9:35 PM] Haha Anna
[9:35 PM] marlen that's a cool example valentin.rozman, learning what's good from every organization, people, etc. and then apply it to what can be supportive in a general manner 'without borders' for example - in the context of equality principles, self support etc -
[9:35 PM] sylvia yes mikemcd a dog or animal is cool for reflection in many ways
[9:36 PM] darrylthomas Im a bit wary sticking my toes into the political swamp... my expectations are sub-optimal
[9:36 PM] marlen right joekou cool to spot it out, it's easy to fall into such patterns and see it as a 'positive thing' and it can even be seen in reality like yeah you get shit done! but only one can be self-honest and seeing what is really behind 'wanting to do a lot of stuff' and if we are hiding from ourselves
[9:37 PM] anna I am having an ‘issue’ with a certain person in my world at the moment. It has escalated quite a bit in terms of me reacting to the person. And it is so cool to have this process, to be able to walk with the point calmly and even though I am reacting, know and see that it isn’t about the other person and every time bring it back to self- and actually see them in my life and the reaction as a gift for me to face myself
[9:37 PM] mikemcd Haha Daryl perhaps the Internal government is still running a muck of mockery lololol
[9:37 PM] Been a point to for me
[9:37 PM] Tooo
[9:37 PM] sylvia cool anna
[9:37 PM] joekou so what i now do is - sometimes i will still go ahead and do the stables or focus on something for a while as a way to stabilize myself - and while doing it i release the energy. afterwards i find i am more stable and can look at the point again
[9:38 PM] so turning it into a directive moment rather than a moment of distraction
[9:38 PM] anna Yes I also find I need to do that joekou
[9:38 PM] marlen so sylvia in relation to those points what have you established for yourself to work on and focus on towards those institutions/parts of the system/family ? what are the main aspects you're working on or applying?
[9:38 PM] darrylthomas Well, Mike.. we'll see how it goes
[9:38 PM] mikemcd Word
[9:38 PM] Indeed
[9:38 PM] viktorpersson So what did you do to solve the powerlessness sylvia?
[9:39 PM] mikemcd Awesome JoeKou # birthing expression through getting down in dirty
[9:39 PM] yoganb Flexible Expectations
[9:39 PM] marlen yep, that's the key anna cool, and that actually enables oneself to get to truly start seeing the other person for who they are, not 'how we see them through the eyes of reaction and judgment' - so it changes invariably how we relate to others as well
[9:39 PM] alyson Lol Daryl, I could see it was a front, and you were a wee darling underneath
[9:40 PM] darrylthomas Emphasis on "wee"!
[9:40 PM] mikemcd Lol Alyson 'a wee darling' lol
[9:40 PM] Lol ya
[9:40 PM] Lol
[9:40 PM] Haha
[9:40 PM] Wee
[9:40 PM] Got to had that wee to my regular verbage repitoire
[9:40 PM] darrylthomas It's a good word. Wee. Wee
[9:40 PM] marlen yeah joekou or avoiding others from taking responsibility for their own stuff, I used to do that until it became too much for me to handle and then one ends up caught with 'doing more' apparently, but have to consider others' and their own responsibilities as well - so, this is a different point in a way but can relate to the 'changing/doing out there' instead of seeing what is 'the drive' behind it reflecting about oneself
[9:40 PM] darrylthomas Now I feel like Miranda Hart
[9:41 PM] joekou sometimes i will also clean and seemingly for no apparent reason reorganize things, or clear up stuff in my files or on the computer - where in a way i am 'preparing' for something to come but don't necessarily know what it is. i don't know if you guys have had that
[9:41 PM] mikemcd Lol
[9:41 PM] sylvia Stop reacting marlen and see things in smaller parts. I saw the systems as big things bigger than me and now I look at segments/parts that I can influence and instead of wanting the other to do so I try and be an example if that is already the case. Sometimes I need more time to get into the new situation. And not judging but as said before see where the common grounds are and focus on that, which takes away th epowerlessness. And of course leaving any expectations behind, things are not to be controlled with a desired outcome, change takes time within me so it will in my outside world.
[9:41 PM] adam yes joekou I get that
[9:42 PM] alyson Lol Mikemcd
[9:42 PM] yoganb Having flexible expectations for people, environment situations instead of unchanging expectations. So when things are bad, sub-par, not so great, you can adjust yourself, your expectations, and so be flexible, and match/meet the environment/situation so you can make the best possible outcome in that moment.
[9:42 PM] mikemcd Spot on sylvia
[9:42 PM] marlen nop joekou I actually did stop the compulsion to clean a long time ago, lol. only keep things orderly in a way but can ask yourself, what am I 'waiting' for that I am not instead directing myself to do? otherwise.... it sounds like constantly 'being prepared' and 'waiting' for something to happen or what do you see?
[9:43 PM] viktorpersson I have not experienced that @joekou
[9:43 PM] joekou no not a constant thing - it is more like when there isn't a clear decision or choice or anything really - more a state of 'readiness' in general hard to explain
[9:44 PM] marlen cool sylvia I fully agree on not having expectations, but working with 'what's here' and rather focusing on how one can best apply oneself in those moments, and that in my case has been very much related to not getting simply 'pissed' about things and feeling powerless indeed, but seeing how in the 'small' that I can change within me, I am already standing in the way that I'd like the 'systems' to function - as within, so without -
[9:44 PM] joekou not a cleanliness compulsion - more like a 'i am not sure what is coming, or what directions i will be taking. but in this moment i prepare what i can'
[9:44 PM] mikemcd File organization is a cool point JoeKou...something I am really just getting Into...like taking the time to get all the files off my phone...so it can function
[9:44 PM] carlton I can relate joekou
[9:44 PM] tormod i have played with this with my word organized @joekou just realizing that i CAN live this word
[9:44 PM] sylvia yes marlen well said
[9:44 PM] joekou lol that is practical mikemcd
[9:44 PM] mikemcd Funny I've never had so much space...and never had so much stuff
[9:44 PM] viktorpersson lol interesting – might have experienced that in the small – for example organizing my desk or papers or similar when I am not really sure what is coming next
[9:45 PM] joekou yes viktorpersson it is like that
[9:45 PM] viktorpersson Ah ok
[9:45 PM] joekou there isnt anything particular or specific. more like a 'down time' but in me there is a knowing or perhaps an anticipation for 'whatever may come next'
[9:45 PM] calm before the storm kind of thing
[9:46 PM] yoganb to me it sounds like Preparation
[9:46 PM] adam that clearing of the table/desktop sort of thing is like a support for me in concentrating on something, making a clearing kind of thing
[9:46 PM] mikemcd Joe perhaps you would make a good crypto wizzard....it's all about re organization of data
[9:46 PM] joekou making space for
[9:47 PM] marlen makes sense in that way adam, but I am finding it difficult to relate, so I'll let it go lol
[9:47 PM] mikemcd Yes Adam I've come to enjoy such things...supports chillaxed accomodations
[9:47 PM] darrylthomas All I can say is sometimes, when your car throws yet another mysterious check-engine light, the crack in your windshield is spidering the glass in half. And then you find the printer shit the bed and has given up the ghost... sometimes all you can do is go out into the back yard... and mowvthe grass.
[9:47 PM] carlton I usually do that when I see my hard drive starts getting full joekou
[9:47 PM] mikemcd Hahaha
[9:48 PM] Daryl
[9:48 PM] marlen lol darrylthomas when 'reality fails'
[9:48 PM] mikemcd You make laugh
[9:48 PM] viktorpersson lol darrylthomas
[9:48 PM] adam lol darryl
[9:48 PM] darrylthomas That's my current situation
[9:48 PM] sylvia lol darrylthomas
[9:48 PM] darrylthomas But for me... there will be another day!
[9:48 PM] mikemcd Well, mowe the shit out of that grass
[9:48 PM] carlton lol darrylthomas
[9:49 PM] darrylthomas Damn right!
[9:49 PM] marlen well it's cool and definitely agree, sometimes there is such a conglomeration of 'things gone wrong' and then it goes into getting angry, blame etc - taking points back to self might take a moment in such accumulation, so focusing on something physical is supportive just to stabilize
[9:49 PM] mikemcd Yeeha
[9:49 PM] sylvia and then after you mowed the grass,how do you view your world then darrylthomas?
[9:49 PM] aldin agree marlen
[9:50 PM] darrylthomas Ill find out in about an hour, sylvia!
[9:50 PM] marlen and so that's a supportive approach to where we'd like everything else to be 'exactly right' For Us, which is not the case in this world and reality, so rather focus on oneself and how we can walk-with reality and it's multiple contexts and variables, rather than wanting 'it' to change 'for us'
[9:50 PM] aldin lol
[9:50 PM] joekou ah yes i have also had it where - shit just gets to be too much in particular dimensions of my life - and sometimes i just want to go to the shed and strip bark off of wood planks for a few hours
[9:50 PM] carlton lol
[9:50 PM] sylvia ah lol keep us posted darryl
[9:50 PM] darrylthomas Im sure that news will be anxiously awaited...
[9:50 PM] adam ha ha
[9:51 PM] marlen yeah the point there would be getting 'prepared' or 'settled down' to now see 'who one was' in each of those 'bad shit happens' situations and see where one can stand it it all in a more supportive manner - for oneself and anyone else involved -
[9:51 PM] mikemcd Enjoy the rest of today everyone. Speak again! You are all champions
[9:51 PM] marlen yeah so share about that darryl
[9:51 PM] lol mikemcd take care
[9:51 PM] viktorpersson You to @mikemcd !
[9:52 PM] marlen that can be temporarily supportive for sure, shedding some 'internal frustrations' in a supportive physical manner, while also considering taking the next step which is facing self of course
[9:52 PM] otherwise, workaholism kicks in and compounded suppressions grow
[9:52 PM] darrylthomas Wah, I will just take a shower and go to the fucking garage... and buy a new printer. And so it goes...
[9:52 PM] alyson Next time, Joe you want a change of environment, I suggest you visit us , always stuff to do physically in the garden or cleaning in the house!
[9:53 PM] joekou lol alyson don't tempt me. lol
[9:53 PM] darrylthomas Kinda pissed... just spent a ton on ink...
[9:53 PM] marlen darrylthomas if any sense of frustration is there, def can be SFgiven, stabilize self - and then just proceeding to do what's needed to be done and that's it, we cannot change the 'obsolescence' of printers just yet, but we can stop our frustrations at it to begin with
[9:54 PM] alyson Any time :grinning:
[9:54 PM] marlen I shall not take shorcuts: self forgiven lol
[9:54 PM] joekou would be cool to visit someday though. never been to NZ
[9:54 PM] marlen ok guys, any last pointers for these last couple of minutes to share?
[9:54 PM] joekou but rather not visit as another cycle of wanting to start over 'new'
[9:54 PM] marlen lol joe
[9:55 PM] alyson You can start over old time, lol!
[9:55 PM] marlen we can 'start over' every day really, every moment, it's up to us, no need to 'change locations' or anything for that... sometimes it might be needed but that's where self-honesty is one's clarity point
[9:55 PM] alyson Or rather cleared time!
[9:55 PM] joekou yes exactly marlen
[9:55 PM] aldin yes marlen
[9:55 PM] well put
[9:55 PM] darrylthomas Take it breath by breath... that's what Jack told me.
[9:56 PM] joekou i don't know where i will be a few years from now but i can know WHO i will be
[9:56 PM] marlen exactly darrylthomas so that applies to the print, garage, etc lol
[9:56 PM] yep and that 'creation of the future' is every moment 'here' so, that's where our 'power' resides in fact
[9:56 PM] alyson Well said Joe
[9:56 PM] marlen so, we can leave it up to here guys if all is said
[9:56 PM] yoganb You will always be wherever you are
[9:56 PM] hahahaha
[9:57 PM] marlen thanks for sharing the variables and many ways wherein this 'sneaky' common pattern exists, very supportive for all and everyone else that will read this too
[9:57 PM] alyson Thanks all!
[9:57 PM] yoganb my bit if fun
[9:57 PM] marlen see you guys!
[9:57 PM] miranda Thanks all, bye
[9:57 PM] marjo thanks all, bye bye
[9:57 PM] aldin see youuuu
[9:57 PM] tormod thanks all ... enjoy
[9:57 PM] adam byes
[9:57 PM] darrylthomas Later. TO THE YARD
[9:57 PM] valentin.rozman Thanks all and bye :slightly_smiling_face:
[9:57 PM] carlton Cool chat Thanks all bye
[9:57 PM] viktorpersson bye!!
[9:57 PM] sylvia bye
[9:57 PM] marlen enjoy darrylthomas !!
[9:58 PM] adam cool darryl
[9:58 PM] yoganb Ciao
[9:58 PM] pvoversc Bye all
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