Life Hacks - Missing Self in the Equation and How to Consider Ourselves in It - 27 October 2017

Marlen
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Life Hacks - Missing Self in the Equation and How to Consider Ourselves in It - 27 October 2017

Postby Marlen » 27 Oct 2017, 22:03

1:58 PM]
marlen set the channel topic: Life Hacks - Got a point to share so that we can walk through it today? Share it! - We'll start 5 after the hour


[2:03 PM]
gian Hello


[2:03 PM]
valentin.rozman Hi all :slightly_smiling_face:


[2:03 PM]
randy howdy


[2:03 PM]
alyson Hi


[2:03 PM]
miranda Hi


[2:03 PM]
marjo Hi


[2:03 PM]
joanajesus heya!


[2:04 PM]
marlen hey guys! so anyone wants to share a point we can look at?


[2:05 PM]
carlton Hello


[2:05 PM]
sunettedimensions Have a look at an everyday life moment

[2:06 PM]
type of thoughts you struggle with?


[2:06 PM]
emotions you can't define?


[2:06 PM]
marlen I can share one point which comes from not being direct in a moment and in doing so, creating a space for undefined assumptions and experiences

[2:07 PM]
sunettedimensions Ahhh that's a nice one M

[2:07 PM]
alyson I have just walked through a difficult point on grief, when I returned from a bank holiday weekend we found one of our cats dying on the deck and the other Sofie found with rigamortis setting in under her bed. We had one cat put to sleep at the vets as she was in such pain and the other an autopsy before we had them cremated. It was found at the autopsies that they had been poisoned with antifreeze, quite devastating, I spent a day feeling very fragile, but am ok now.


[2:07 PM]
joanajesus To me has been trying to look at how my decision will impact things/people around me and in the end forgetting about what I really want for me.


[2:08 PM]
marlen So for example, many times we compromise ourselves in saying we are 'up' for doing something, but we definitely don't want to do it and in such moments, because of the context point - might be an expectation, idea of how we have to be/behave in certain context we then go into this 'well I say 'yes' but mean 'no' or feel 'pressured' to do this or that - and the outflows of not being essentially honest in our expression.


[2:08 PM]
kims Aw Alyson, so sorry to hear that


[2:08 PM]
marlen @joanajesus is kind of a similar dimension as well here where we consider others more than really looking within what am I up for, what do I want to create, do, live in this moment or decision


[2:09 PM]
so we can call that missing 'self' in the equation, how's that?

[2:09 PM]
miranda That is sad news @alyson!


[2:09 PM]
marjo How terrible Alyson


[2:09 PM]
dan i can really relate marlen

[2:09 PM]
alyson Thanks @kims and all here, was very sad

[2:10 PM]
randy that's messed up Alyson... could have been accidental where someone left antifreeze out after draining a radiator.... cats and dogs are attracted to it but, it's definitely poison for them

[2:10 PM]
joanajesus yes @marlen and then it takes double the effort to re-align oneself and face others when we are self-honest

[2:10 PM]
marlen it's a dimension of self-compromise in essence that we can look at and share practical ways to identify these moments within ourselves, so that what we create has a solid starting point

[2:10 PM]
kims Good one Marlen - I have seen how I can sometimes do this where there is money involved, like I am afraid of missing out on a chance to earn money

[2:11 PM]
And then I over stretch myself

[2:11 PM]
marlen ok so let's get to it! yep @kims that kind of self-compromise indeed

[2:11 PM]
sunettedimensions All the best in the self healing process @alyson - it is unfortunate how people's actions and the consequences it creates via ripples into others and their lives is not considered. Something to also look through into your life, always: be aware of what you say and do towards others as you may not know the ripples it can create - place a guard infront of not only one's mouth, but also one's mind

[2:11 PM]
marlen set the channel topic: Life Hacks - Missing Self in the Equation and How to Consider Ourselves in It

[2:12 PM]
marlen So, what I have seen is how the first point to identify is what am I wanting to fulfill or what do I fear missing out on that leads to a point of self-compromise

[2:12 PM]
anna Very sorry to hear @alyson - sending you a big hug. When our cat got hit by a car, what supported me was to remember what she had gifted me with her expression.

[2:13 PM]
Man @marlen - I can so much relate to this point lol

[2:13 PM]
sunettedimensions @marlen happened to me as well, a tough lesson on a physical level ensued: when reflecting I got overwhelmed by what a few people were saying and the energy within their words / presence leading to making a decision to participate - only to bear the consequences where I / nor my body could handle it and already DURING the experience I knew "girl, should have checked in with SELF and BODY first!!! before committing"

[2:13 PM]
So, @marlen another point we can look at is

[2:13 PM]
joanajesus to me has to do with my communication, in those moments I resist being self-honest and say what I want for me; in those milliseconds I place myself in the other person and then I go into this personality split where I accomodate to what I think another wants to listen and I miss my opportunity to share ME, with no filters to make things look nicer than they are for example

[2:14 PM]
sunettedimensions THAT MOMENT where you get overwhelmed - what awareness measures can we place when asked to participate / even initially considering doing this to not SHIFT into everyone else / even the event itself as well, but remember to check in with self and body


[2:14 PM]
marlen yep exactly that kind of thing @sunettedimensions in my case it also relates to a lax idea of 'yeah I can handle it' and not really looking at all dimensions/aspects involved and not considering what it takes to do that something - sometimes not having the skills or actual 'how to' or not really being up for it, but saying 'yes' more from a point of fulfilling an idea of 'I can' rather than practically assessing where I am and who I am in relation to the point

[2:14 PM]
kims I call this point FOMO - fear of missing out lol

[2:15 PM]
sunettedimensions for me personally, it was that moment that defined the consequences where I did not chewck in with me, the body

[2:15 PM]
miranda Before I say 'yes' or 'no', I assess the question/situation within myself, it is often the case that I have to weigh things to make it a real 'yes' or 'no'.

[2:15 PM]
valentin.rozman Today I decided to respond differently to interaction of my flatmate where she in her specific way using a projection and also strong physical gestures expressed some points that she is struggling with. Until now I reacted with judgement to such events and immediately wanted to assist her with pointing out her pattern and how to best to deal with. However today since recently I looked at my pattern of superiority, I pushed myself to see the point more from her perspective and went with the flow by also responded to her by physical gestures in order to get more close to her. That worked quite fine since we talked today for many hours and she explained many things from her past that influenced her so I was able to understand her more. I also learned how important it is to give support more slowly so i refrained myself from pushing onto her and responded to additional interaction in a much more soft and nonjudgemental way.

[2:16 PM]
joanajesus @marlen and behind the I can I see the expectation that we put unto ourselves and that we believe others have of ourselves

[2:16 PM]
marlen @miranda yep in my case I have missed that moment to genuinely assess but comes more from a sense of 'sure, let's go for it!' without seeing all the aspects/dimensions/practicality involved, so it's definitely one aspect there, to slow down and taking the time to assess, no rush

[2:17 PM]
alyson The cats have been through so much with a tree falling on them , two earthquakes and a year with no home, when we had to come and feed them, so the last year has been sooo lovely becoming intimate with them again, interesting @sunettedimensions I wondered if the dream or rather nightmare I had about twins being slaughtered was connected to this event in some way, the cats were born on the same day and gone on the same day too. Is there something specific Sunette, when you are mentioning ripples here? I have become aware that I have to be more careful what I say, so this is quite timely advice.

[2:17 PM]
miranda Can relate @marlen I can be overenthusiastic and say yes before I see the consequences

[2:17 PM]
joanajesus very cool @valentin.rozman

[2:17 PM]
marlen @joanajesus yep exactly that's another dimension, like a subtle idea of 'I cannot say no to that!' or 'what if I say no? what are the outflows? what will others think if I don't do it or agree to be part of this/that?' and so self-compromise comes, which is definitely the starting point that already defines what will come as a point of creation in such self-compromise, not really expressing but already playing out a compromised decision to do something.

[2:17 PM]
dan cool miranda, I have a friend who I witness also do this. She is often animated about it, placing one hand on her heart and one on her gut, "checking in" before answering, to be "in her truth". pretty cool. I aspire to slow down more in these moments too - very quick to people please/care


[2:18 PM]
kims Yes at times I create a belief within myself that I can 'handle' everything and within this will be seen by offers as useful/helpful - is another dimension I see

[2:18 PM]
marlen hey @alyson I understand your situation here and sorry about that, but I suggest to pass through those points in a more personal manner so that we can focus on the topic altogether please

[2:19 PM]
alyson Sure @marlen

[2:19 PM]
sunettedimensions @alyson will respond in Viber

[2:20 PM]
kims Alyson I would like to know what Sunette's perspective is if you care to share ? If not no worries

[2:20 PM]
marlen So it seems that's a common denominator, going into the whim of a moment and saying 'yes' or being up for something but not really taking a moment to look at ourselves, our body, where and who we are in relation to that situation, and then make an informed decision essentially, taking time for ourselves. Sometimes it can involve asking more information about what we are going to get into, sometimes it takes also embracing the new, but in that being willing to walk through it

[2:21 PM]
So who else can share dimensions about this point of self-compromise?

[2:21 PM]
alyson Thanks @sunettedimensions , much appreciated, sure @kims


[2:22 PM]
tormod I often just go with it and sometimes i have to cancel my part out of lacking the skill - i throw in the towel not so often though it happens.

[2:22 PM]
randy sometimes, I'll agree to do something that I don't necessarily "want" to do but, just being the nice/good guy, will agree, not wanting to disappoint the person doing the asking...

[2:22 PM]
joanajesus yes @marlen not expressing ourselves anymore, exactly - it is a sort of posession.

[2:22 PM]
@sunettedimensions I like the idea of placing awareness measures in those moments - I thought of taking a breath, slowing down, checking-in with the body and perhaps asing specific questions to ourselves, such as "If I wasn't asked to do this or join this event, would I do it by myself? Am I doing this for me or for an idea that I want to project? Am I afraid of how another person might react if I say no?


[2:23 PM]
marjo I had an experience this week with a doctor, there was an appointment to remove a small piece out of my mouth. But this doctor was behaving like a butcher and hurt me terrible, I am walking now with a thick cheek. And I did not say a word about it.

[2:23 PM]
dan another cool dimension to look at is how when I'm 'less confident', is when I have an even easier time NOT checking in with myself for my real yes/no - because I'm seeing that I need to inquire/investigate myself actually for really deep, thoroughly, to be confident in substantiating my yes/no, and not allow my decision to then be swayed by others' - which only happens because I fear (judgment, exculsion, etc.)

[2:23 PM]
marlen right @randy that's another point there on 'doing the right thing/being a nice person' as a point of compromise and in that having an idea of ourselves that we want to project towards others, which ultimately is definitely a point to look at within ourselves, where are we still holding us captive within such morality point, I can definitely relate to that as well


[2:24 PM]
cool questions @joanajesus

[2:24 PM]
miranda interesting @marjo

[2:25 PM]
marlen @marjo yep, I've had that with some doctors in the past where I would be afraid to ask too many questions or believe that he was just going to explain the exact things I needed to hear, and in that not really sorting out the doubts I would end up having at the end of our appointment and once I was out of the office, so, these points of compromising ourselves can be as simple as 'keeping quiet' when we know we have stuff to share, ask, do

[2:25 PM]
randy yeah,those are good questions we can ask ourself before jumping into soemthing @joanajesus

[2:26 PM]
valentin.rozman @marjo I also got a massive swollen cheek a day after I got home from a dentist who worked on one of my tooth white passional. Since the swell did not go away after two day, I went to visit her again and she discovered strong caries on the tooth next to previous one so she also did that one. Luckily that solved the problem and now my cheek is slowly regaining the normal shape.

[2:27 PM]
marlen @tormod yeah that's also another way to look at it where in the midst of it you can then really say ok can't really do this or need help to complete it, also to not see it as a defeated point if you really realize you can't do it, that's an honest assessment, because you then realize ok I have to stop doing this/I can't - it would be more compromising to 'keep at it' even if it is causing some consequences in donig so

[2:28 PM]
So a way there in that dimension @dan which is quite relevant is to for a moment remove 'others' from that equation in that decision that we are making to do something/be part of something and look at/focus on ourselves

[2:28 PM]
marjo Cool it is dissolved Valentin.

[2:29 PM]
viktorpersson Yes I like those questions as well @joanajesus

[2:29 PM]
marlen so that if we see that others are in our head while we are making such decision in terms of fears, judgments, ideas we want to project about ourselves, we can place all of that aside and focus on physicality, what am I setting myself up for in this moment,, am I willing to do this, can I do this, do I have sufficient skills/information to do it? etc.


[2:29 PM]
viktorpersson I will try using them the next time I will have to make a decision like that

[2:29 PM]
joanajesus @randy good point, if I also use the expression "jumping into something" that helps weighting the decision, because if we are to jump we want to know where we are jumping into, how high, are we physically Ok to do so. Nice one

[2:30 PM]
dan cool marlen, slowing down to consider self, alone. then reintegrate with community plans.

[2:30 PM]
marlen yep, agreed, it does feel like doing it in a 'whim' so to speak, 'jumping into it' or 'rushing' something without taking that moment to really assess the situation.

[2:30 PM]
randy cool @joanajesus

[2:31 PM]
marlen Another dimension is when we swiftly make it about 'others' in our head, an expectation about many people wanting us to do/participate in something and in doing so, ending up doing it out of 'peer pressure' so to speak, usually ending up in an uncomfortable outcome. This is not all the time, sometimes one can move through the point, really varies from situation to situation, but these are some 'scenarios' I can relate to


[2:32 PM]
randy another dimension of that joanajesus, is How deep is the "water" we're getting ready to jump into?

[2:32 PM]
joanajesus yes @marlen too much smoke clouding our ability to make decisions and I see that it can be much simpler. This realisation occurs usually after I come to terms with myself and I share my real decision with another, and then it is like a relief.

[2:33 PM]
tormod Who am i (projecting and believing) myself to be in the eyes of annother ? What is the take on me participating ?

[2:33 PM]
alyson Yes I find I over commit myself and have a tendency to spread myself too thin, as I often assume that if I don’t do something, none else will, but that is not usually the case , and can become a point of self importance instead, so need to check the starting points of commitments, also say ing no to something challenging Căn also be the easier option, so like everything in life it is about finding balance


[2:33 PM]
dan it's like not having a strong backbone

[2:34 PM]
marlen What also opens up here is creating that equilibrium between this personal assessment and also taking that 'leap' that many things require at the same time in order to expand, change, taking on something 'new' that we might feel not completely ready for... so there's a fine balance between the practical assessment of physical ability/capacity/skills and will and the usual 'discomforts' that come with also being outside of our comfort zone in deciding to do something or creating something


[2:34 PM]
joanajesus @randy yep, will I be able to get out of there? wow this analogy can work in many ways


[2:34 PM]
randy finding balance indeed alyson


[2:35 PM]
marlen yeah cool point there @alyson on 'over doing' as well as a point of compromise where we set ourselves to believe we can do it all, and in that causing us to eventually have to slow down if it's not sustainable, so a point there to consider is delegating responsibilities and being willing to ask for help/support, I can relate to the idea of 'I can do it all' type of thing, so can investigate where am I believing that 'asking for someone else to step in ' is seen as a weakness or something

[2:35 PM]
miranda A real yes or no can keep the balance


[2:36 PM]
dan Taking the time to orient myself to my day, my projects and responsibilities, in the morning - has been really helpful, also in this sense of 'more knowing' my own wants/needs to feel good about my self-creation today - helps me have a stronger backbone in saying yes/no when being invited into others' plans/realities


[2:37 PM]
joanajesus yes @marlen I totally see that. Another point is how we tend to influence future decisions based on who we were/what we did before, creating this reputation of oneself that will always limit us because we end up forgetting that balance of assessing if it's a point of expansion or self-compromise

[2:37 PM]
marlen ah cool dimension there as well @dan where you can assess whether attending/going somewhere is a point of distraction or if you have also made space for such time-out in your day, depending on what you decide to live in that moment

[2:38 PM]
dan my wacky prioritization of others' needs before my own, has been really tiring in the long-run


[2:38 PM]
randy I like that dan,,, when being invited into others' plans/realities

[2:38 PM]
dan and not cool.

[2:39 PM]
alyson Yes indeed @marlen, delegating is something I don’t have issues with, I can realise my own limitations most of the time, it is pushing through them that takes incredible effort for me

[2:39 PM]
dan for anyone

[2:39 PM]
marlen yep @joanajesus can relate, as in 'I always say I am up for things' or 'I can always pull things through' and yep what happens is we are definitely sometimes not able to carry on with something becoming a point of compromise and in doing so, forgetting to check up on ourselves first, but continuing to do it for the sake of how others see us/perceive us

[2:39 PM]
joanajesus and it became our comfort zone too @marlen because the moment we say No (or Yes) we are expected to give an explanation of what has changed

[2:40 PM]
marlen cool @dan I can relate to in the past where I would say 'yes' to any invitation out of fear of losing friends/relationships, many times I definitely just wanted to focus on my thing, but such fear would overpower my assessment in the moment

[2:40 PM]
interesting @joanajesus had not looked at that, so in that also saying yes as a way to not have to explain 'why' the answer is 'no' this time so to speak?

[2:40 PM]
joanajesus @dan the prioritization of other's needs --- awesome blog topic

[2:41 PM]
dan that's cool to consider @marlen, cause I wasn't really seeing the clingyness or attachment of it

[2:41 PM]
:slightly_smiling_face: good call @joanajesus

[2:42 PM]
marlen also looking at how we believe we have to always explain ourselves, I definitely do that and have gone into the expectation of others having to 'explain' themselves, but in this, also have to consider another's point/process and being ok if there are no explanations to be given as to 'why' another person or myself decides 'not' to do something.


[2:42 PM]
@dan yep like @kims said above the FOMO fear of missing out point

[2:43 PM]
marjo That is a cool point about the explanations Marlen!

[2:44 PM]
joanajesus @marlen how I see it is that one will likely explained what happened, what has changed, and that is a point of self-reflection, of sharing with another that my Yes wasn't honest and that now I changed my "mind" (which is in fact Self now speaking). I had this situation where I said yes to a trip, booked the tickets and then I had to explain that in fact this trip was not going to be supportiveto me in that moment in time and I cancelled it. There was a massive resistance to share my perspective as the easy route would be to leave things as per the plan, not face another's disappoitnment --- so it would be comfort in the discomfort.

[2:44 PM]
marlen so in general it has to do with looking at the relationship we have towards that something/someone towards who/which we are setting up ourselves to compromise, to identify the fears or desires that one is wanting to fulfill in relation to such position/person/situation in our lives


[2:45 PM]
randy there's a blog topic too @joanajesus, finding comfort in the discomfort.


[2:46 PM]
marlen cool @joanajesus that's a nice example of this kind of self-compromise as well, so yep I agree on sharing the reasons why being definitely clarifying and supportive, though also considering 'people out there' that are not into self-investigation, might not want to explain anything at all about it, and so considering that to be their point as well - here speaking from the 'receiving end'

[2:46 PM]
in that sense we can only be an example of being comfortable in explaining/sharing why we see ourselves as able or not to do something

[2:47 PM]
kims For me I would take every shift work offered that I could manage, because I was in a point of fear of not being asked again, so in my
Mind I was making myself indispensable

[2:47 PM]
marlen So we have there another dimension, fulfilling expectations/not wanting to disappoint in what we believe others believe/perceive/think about ourselves where we then set ourselves to do something to satisfy a particular idea of ourselves or our skills/capacity

[2:47 PM]
joanajesus Oh yes, I also tend to think that I need to explain myself lol and then I expect that from others, when in fact, that's my idea and I can allow myself to be clear on my decision without necessarily sharing what took me to the decision

[2:48 PM]
marlen ah interesting dimension there as well @kims, so a fear of loss involved in it as well, becoming 'irreplaceable' by over-loading yourself

[2:49 PM]
joanajesus .. but be open to share if someone asks!

[2:49 PM]
marlen also depends a lot on who you are sharing those explanations to @joanajesus and also seeing if people go understanding it or how engaged they are, asking questions or not etc.

[2:50 PM]
joanajesus @marlen funny, I would not

[2:50 PM]
kims Yes @marlen and I created a monster for myself and ended up not being able to say no and drop down in pay

[2:50 PM]
joanajesus ops, enter. I was thinking that I would not make that difference in my head so that's a nice point to be aware of

[2:51 PM]
marlen And another dimension which can be related to this but not necessarily is when we believe we are 'not up for doing something' and in the end, we actually end up enjoying it, so that's also a reverse mechanism to consider and assessing what we are considering as the reasons not to, sometimes some petty things can lead us to believe 'I don't want to' for example, but end up being able to do it or enjoying it


[2:52 PM]
kims But my work then became such a chore and I complained of working all the time

[2:52 PM]
tormod True @marlen i end up enjoying, learning and expanding - mostly

[2:53 PM]
kims Yes @marlen

[2:53 PM]
It's interesting how this is the case lol

[2:53 PM]
dan the 'yes man' design - has it's pros too I suppose

[2:53 PM]
joanajesus oh yeah, there might be resistance but then once we're in, we're in! Or in job situations where we might perceive that such a task is too big but once we jump into it we find that we can sail in those waters

[2:53 PM]
miranda Thanks all, bye

[2:53 PM]
marlen yeah @tormod in that is like that 'extra effort' point that we sometimes resist doing like it was explained with exercise - in that latest bruce lee explanation - but in essence also reminding ourselves how stepping out of our comfort zone will most likely not be a 'desirable' thing to do in our minds, so again comes the practical assessment of doing something

[2:53 PM]
kims Because there are no positive expectations around the thing we didn't want to do

[2:54 PM]
randy but, sometimes we can also simply "make the most of the situation" and enjoy ourselves when the "No" still would have been our preferred answer


[2:54 PM]
marlen that's a key right there @kims we create all of those expectations, and so we set ourselves our own 'trap' so to speak like in the job situation you mentioned

[2:55 PM]
kims Yes exactly @marlen

[2:55 PM]
joanajesus interesting point @kims and also we didn't have any reference for example, so we would open to what could open up

[2:55 PM]
kims Yes @joanajesus

[2:55 PM]
marlen so it becomes an interesting balancing act really, which is also a point of self-honesty and this is something that also comes with/develops as we essentially become self-honest with ourselves, because we many times believe we are compromising ourselves 'for others' but in the end, it's really about self-compromise always


[2:55 PM]
joanajesus nice one @randy it's about the attitude we take once we are in the water after the jump - we might as well enjoy it and not regret it, but learn for next time

[2:56 PM]
randy yep joanajesus

[2:56 PM]
marlen so in developing such self-honesty we can know where we are willing to stand, do, act and commit to, and yep it is something we go creating, building, developing on the way so it's not a 'readily given' thing either, and these kind of self-compromising events assist us in seeing/identifying where/how and with who/what am I still not having a clear relationship with


[2:57 PM]
dan really cool awareness marlen

[2:57 PM]
marlen agreed @randy

[2:58 PM]
Yep, definitely recently learning to embrace the ups and downs so as to not expect things to 'always' be a 'yes' and go 'perfect' lol, nope, one learns as one goes and faces these points

[2:58 PM]
ok so any last pointers?

[2:59 PM]
kims Consequence will always show us the error of our ways lol

[2:59 PM]
randy great topic marlen.... really cool chat. lots of very cool support here...

[2:59 PM]
joanajesus cool @marlen something I realised is that there is this judment towards people that change their minds or that take different decisions; so here I see that it's not about the consistency in the outcome (e.g. say always Yes or No to given situations) but the consistency of being self-honest in every decision


[2:59 PM]
kims Or I should say our lack of self honesty

[2:59 PM]
marlen yep, we can process it and learn from it to prevent/change next time for sure @kims

[2:59 PM]
dan If I take one this from this chat it's this last point here: to remember that if I was simply alone, I'd be compromising myself - and when I'm with others, it's just a layer of distraction excuse, to not be self-honest/responsible about my own compromising habits

[2:59 PM]
alyson Indeed @randy, I have sometimes attended events I did not really want to, to support the person involved, and found myself being surprised how much I actually enjoyed myself, th3 secret I find now, is knowing when to leave and allow time to rest

[3:00 PM]
marlen right @joanajesus I have been on the receiving end of that, judging 'inconsistency' instead of actually acknowledging is cool that someone can change their stance in one moment and be ok with it, so in my case is to not be an absolutist in 'yes forever' and 'no forever' lol



[3:00 PM]
ok so! let's leave it up to here guys

[3:01 PM]
kims Thanks all


[3:01 PM]
marjo Thanks all, cool chat! bye


[3:01 PM]
marlen thanks a lot for sharing these dimensions here, nurtured the topic and so the solutions to look at


[3:01 PM]
dan cool, thanks everyone!


[3:01 PM]
joanajesus great conversation everyone!


[3:01 PM]
randy thanks everyone...


[3:01 PM]
marlen bye!



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