Hey, some possible contentions

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Zangetsu
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Joined: 30 Apr 2012, 03:47

Hey, some possible contentions

Postby Zangetsu » 30 Apr 2012, 04:44

Sorry I'm quite bad with search, but if anyone knows where I can find responses to these issues I have imagined, that would be great...

How much control on consumption will there be, because an unmet want, that can't even be hoped for in a system, I imagine would breed a lot of ill will.
It seems to me, the point is not to say to people, "its bad for you; or not worth it (in terms of the collective)- so you can't have it", but to get people to realize this while allowing them to express their attitudes. I think bad choices should be managed by a governing body, so that a structure is produced that minimizes the surtax on the rest of society- but not everyone is on the same level, and treating them like they are, will perhaps breed an army of malcontents. We cannot just teleport into the future, we must construct a bridge...

I am just in general very afraid of anything that is authoraterian. And I'm afraid a system of commerce (maybe the wrong word to use) that doesn't involve exchange between the participants will just lead to ulterior currencies being employed, or bartering that would just be superimposed on-top of the system put into place... Because as I said above, we cannot impose a mind set, if its not chosen, it will just be resented, and then: can this system work at all if it is mixed with people utilizing micro capitalism...

I'm afraid of big government, because I do not believe people identify with big collectives, only their immediate community... working against the natural tendency of people to serve foreign communities at the expense of their own communities resources, or the same attitude on an individual basis, can only be countered with a culture of security and trust in a system (or culture of security/trust). So basically, how can you trust a system if it has no structural surety, in, for example its labour capacity, and how can the soundness of its capacity be trusted when each individual is made responsible for the imprudence of everyone (or large groups of people). If everyone draws from the same pool, then a person must either be given too much power to interfere with the lives of other groups of people, or too little power for it to be equitable. At least at the community level this could be justified, and people could find refuge from less prudent collectives, but in this system, the community that is the most lax, lives the best, and supports the least, at the expense of the collective... Obviously if everyone has the same ideals this angle isn't relevant, unless you propose mass re-education...



Marlen
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Re: Hey, some possible contentions

Postby Marlen » 30 Apr 2012, 07:14

Hi there, welcome to the forum –

The Equal Money System will imply living as everyone has always wanted to live: in dignity, being able to trust yourself as another, walking in a world wherein no survival is experienced as a constant life-threat because all your essential needs will be met.

Hence, what we have to work with at the moment is investigating how we have created the current system as is. What we are facing is the manifested consequences of having created from the starting point of personal gain/ power and disregarding the collective-consideration of us not being ‘the only ones’ in this reality, but that we are actually existing through a set of relationships that we’ve created – and mostly imposed- toward the physical reality of which we obtain what we require to live.
These relationships are the aspects that we are working with here, as we understand that all current world systems are stemming from our own mind-system, which is what we are assisting and supporting ourselves to walk with here at the Desteni Forum.

The ‘bridge’ we can create as a temporary realization of how to equalize ourselves as life through a monetary system is the Equal Money System, which functions as temporary training ground to learn how to give and receive as equals. If you equalize money as life and the only value that can ever exist is Life itself, we can already see and understand that this process is about stopping all values in separation of self. These values have been created at a mind level, which is the reason Why we are focusing on walking our own mind First while we go researching and understanding how our current reality is a direct consequence of each one’s participation in relationships of separation, which means: believing that something can be more or less than another, accepting and allowing ourselves to believe that the current money system has any actual value in itself in relation to reality.

So, realize that we are all here to be the solution, to educate and walk our individual processes to become the change that this world requires – thus the Equal Money System is not an imposition that you can simply comply or not to, this is about a system that can only exist if people agree to live within the principle of what’s best for all life – we cannot possibly impose something that is not beneficial for all parts if our principle and purpose within Desteni and the Equal Money System is to equalize life in all ways.

Realize that any fear that you may experience is only created out of not being able to actually ‘picture’ such reality, because it was not preprogrammed – never was considered in this reality until now. Hence we are literally paving the way to establish the basic notion of Equality as Life as a Living-System wherein all Life is supported equally – as redundant as it may seem, it is only within this consideration that the current separation can be exposed for the unnecessary friction/ opposition and diatribe that it represents, which has only lead us further and further away from realizing that all that we have separated ourselves from, all that we have neglected and denied is ourselves as life.

So I suggest that if you are familiar with the process that we walk here, individually, to start with writing out the fears in detail and walking them through Self Forgiveness. This is one of the primary reasons why we begin with ourselves, first looking and identifying at all the limitations that we have imposed to ourselves and this reality in the form of fears as judgments and limitations that we have externalized and manifested into our current institutions, governments and any other social organs that are certainly Not standing within the consideration of what’s best for all – yet they are all the externalization of our own mind patterns of limitation, fear and discord.

We are definitely suggesting massive re-education – once more beings start realizing the importance of this process as the only solution to continue existence, the necessary changes and adjustments or complete re-structuring of the educational system will ensue, as that is within the best interest of all beings that are here and the generations to come that will certainly require to have a renewed education to adjust to a new living-reality in Equality.

This is within the basic principle of the old must go in order for the new to emerge/ be manifested.

So, we cannot assure anything about the Equal Money System as we have to actually create it/ manifest it ourselves – there are no vague and hollow promises within this, but only a certainty as a best for all outcome that is the principle that should have always been lived in within this reality. Thus, this process entails self-creation at all levels: individually and collectively – which implies that it begins within self – you as an individual – and from there, establish the necessary groups in this world to go establishing the basic considerations and practical policies that can go opening new perspectives toward an overall reform of the current system.
This will take time – yet this is all there is to do if we are actually willing ourselves to continue living in this reality. All we require is to walk our individual process and prepare ourselves in our reality, get ourselves in a position within the system wherein we can actually establish the foundation necessary to create the Equal Money System which is You being part of the creation of it – this is a 1+1 addition that will grow exponentially as we go realizing, as humanity, that the current system Is unsustainable. This is already a palpable evidence, which reveals the urgency of the matter wherein we are the ones that have the power and ability to create a substantial change in this world if we align ourselves – one by one –to live by a principle where Life if finally regarded as equal in all living beings.

If you want to continue discussing the details and specifics about the Equal Money System, I suggest you to do once you have read the basic FAQ as the Equal Money System Wiki and proposals that can be voted there as well.

Take a moment to read through the threads here and in the EMS forum as well to see where you want to participate – that is after you have walked through the basic material on the Equal Money System to have the basic foundation to participate once that you have understood the basic principle at hand.


Please read through the Desteni Forum Guidelines in order to be aware of the way participation takes place here.

If something requires further clarification, share it and we'll assist.



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Ann
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Re: Hey, some possible contentions

Postby Ann » 30 Apr 2012, 09:12

Hello!
How much control on consumption will there be, because an unmet want, that can't even be hoped for in a system, I imagine would breed a lot of ill will.
It seems to me, the point is not to say to people, "its bad for you; or not worth it (in terms of the collective)- so you can't have it", but to get people to realize this while allowing them to express their attitudes. I think bad choices should be managed by a governing body, so that a structure is produced that minimizes the surtax on the rest of society- but not everyone is on the same level, and treating them like they are, will perhaps breed an army of malcontents. We cannot just teleport into the future, we must construct a bridge...
Yes, just saying "its bad for you" ofcourse wont have people realizing it is actually not good for themselves nor for our planet in the whole. As a new education will emerge, as well as parenting classes, children will not grow up as they do today. They will be taught about how everything is interlinked, to be self-honest, to see the consequences of ones actions etc... this will impact everything. And will create totally different values. People wont just consume to consume or because of an internal insecurity etc...
Also many of such products wont exist because it has become irrelevant and was only here for profit, driven by the consumers insecurities. products that often damage nature because of the chemical content.

But your absolutely right that we cant just teleport to that point, as if BOOM! it will be here. That is why we reach out through various platforms. In our every day life, on sociale networks, forums etc... It does take time, I think longer than my lifetime. So I dont count on it being realized during the time I will be in this body.
I am just in general very afraid of anything that is authoraterian. And I'm afraid a system of commerce (maybe the wrong word to use) that doesn't involve exchange between the participants will just lead to ulterior currencies being employed, or bartering that would just be superimposed on-top of the system put into place... Because as I said above, we cannot impose a mind set, if its not chosen, it will just be resented, and then: can this system work at all if it is mixed with people utilizing micro capitalism...
Many people are. We seem to forget how controlled we already are. Even our so called "choices". Desires are induced and exploited to sell, to make profit, and then it seems like people have "choices", but they simply act on their fears and desires, based on their cultural programming. That is why some woman buy a clauset full of high heels, or lipsticks, get plastic surgery, want a new fancy car to show off etc... they can say "it is my choice", but it isnt really. If they would have from a young age been taught the value of life, and to not derive their self worth from what they buy or how others judge their physical appearance, they wouldnt have made those "choices". So lets bring it back to 1 ^point: doing what is best for all to our best ability. Anyone abusing that wont be allowed. So a "government "like that also wont be allowed.

It kind of reminds me of something I saw on tv, a christian family that took in 2 rebellious teens. Their behavior and dealing with situations was totally different. They were just taught differently. I dont support religion at all, but some of their parenting skills were really effective: communication, doing what you would want to be done unto you, spending time together etc... this caused a whole different dynamic, one that the rebellious kids never experienced. They were taught to get their way, not communicate, and get away with being selfish... and that is why they became as they are : rebelious and selfish.


Check out this page:) http://equalmoney.org/wiki/Politics




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