Desteni: Cult or not?

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AnthonyF
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby AnthonyF » 16 Jan 2013, 02:38

Is there a way to attach a document to a message?
I have a document to show, and I could copy it, but half of the text is typed in red, and the other in black. When I copy it here it all appears in black.
So can I attach a Word 2007 document here somehow?

Thanks.



Marlen
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby Marlen » 16 Jan 2013, 03:28

Try when clicking on post a reply, below the save draft/ preview/ submit buttons you get an options/upload attachment option - see if it is enabled, if it is not, then you can post it here and change the colors/ give it format with the options available within the forum within the same post a reply window.



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AnthonyF
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby AnthonyF » 16 Jan 2013, 04:19

Thanks Marlen.

Okay.
So, I hope I highlighted all of this properly.
This is an email that this person sent to my cousin regarding Desteni.
The things that I said was just in regards to my cousin and I discussing Desteni on Facebook.
And you will see Anna's reply (which is earlier in this topic) and this person's responses.
My cousin forwarded it to me, and I thought I'd share it here.

Thanks.

\/


Hi mate,

Have a look through my reply and thoughts on your cousins reply below. His letter is in black and my replies are the red text. Feel free to just forward it to him if you like.
The more I read about it the whackier it gets. I just can’t fathom how someone can fall for some of this stuff.
Enjoy.
Jason


I had a read of it, I can see how that COULD relate to Desteni.
You can see how it could relate but refuse to make the connection due to your personal interests. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and evidence implies it is a duck; then it’s most likely a duck.
At this moment I am cool with Desteni, I trust it.
This is how all victims of cults fall prey, by trusting the source without critically researching it. And the key word there is CRITICALLY. You can’t research with the intent of finding supportive information and validating your belief, this is known as confirmation bias. You must apply the same criticisms as if you are a neutral party. He demonstrates the same devotion and commitment that any religious person eminates by whole-heartedly trusting the source without critically analysing it. In other words he has the same faith in these people that an evangelical Christian puts in their reverend or god. Blind faith leads to ignorance . This will be his downfall.
I haven't payed/don't plan to pay for any courses/interviews. The majority of the material is FREE. Certain things do cost money, but they aren't necessary at all.
WRONG. Read the fine print. Yes there are a lot of things they have available for free. Yes the majority of the material is free but it is utter garbage and useless. The only free information is the information that leads you towards deeper understanding and the only way to progress to the deeper levels are through the paid courses. The entire System revolves around people “supporting” each other through the courses, all of which are paid courses. The ONLY way to progress through the system and achieve any sort of “enlightenment” is through the paid courses. The free ones are there to bait people into receiving the higher levels of training. This is much like Scientology’s work method; they offer heaps of free courses too, but to get anywhere in the group you have to do the paid courses. There is no other way to jump the queue in these systems.
I also asked people that have been with Desteni about the possibility of a cult.
This is what "Anna" had to say.
This is laughable. Do you really think anyone in the group is going to say they are a cult? If you had asked followers of Scientology, the Heavens Gate Cult, Jim Jones’ People’s Temple or the Manson Family if they were a cult do you think they’d say “yes”? Anyone who answers Yes to that is deluded and poorly informed about cult life. This is an identifier of a cult; a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs and practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative perception. It is absurd to consider asking them if they are a cult.
"Hi Anthony.
The following is what I'd suggest for anyone who says that Desteni is a cult to consider:
It is easy to make assumptions about something when casting a glance at it. Yes, very true. I’d agree with this statement. It is similar to seeing monsters in the corner of one's eye at night, where upon further inspection it was merely a lamp casting shadows. But if you don't actually step out of the bed and go and investigate it, you'll keep sitting there seeing monsters because of what? This is a very well-known scientific phenomena called paradolia. And investigating it without understanding what you’re researching leads to incorrect conclusions and biases being confirmed. Fear and Imagination in the mind that is coming from within oneself. Despite the fact this statement sounds a lot like new age crap it is slightly valid. I do suspect that these people are using this statement in the wrong way to warp the meaning somewhat. Paradolia is a result of both fear and an active imagination. And this does come from flaws in our human brain left over from thousands of years of human brain development. It is not some sort of magical inner secret you discover and open doors into the inner workings of your mind. Therefore I'd suggest to have a look at whether one is deliberately looking for some specific result (like Desteni is a cult). And what about the other end of the spectrum? What about people looking specifically for evidence that it is NOT a cult? Bias works both ways, it is not a one way street. You can be biased both FOR and AGAINST it and this is why I find the process of sceptical and scientific researching to be so crucial. One must approach the subject from a neutral perspective and make judgements based on sound, validated evidence, not personal subjection and anecdotes. Even if one does research it looking for evidence of it being a cult it does not neutralise the evidence if the evidence supports the theory.
- because otherwise, would it not be common sense to investigate something before making assumptions? There’s a big difference between making assumptions and making an informed decision. Assumptions are based on personal beliefs and opinions but an informed decision based on validated evidence is clean of all biases and personal perceptions. This is what makes scientific studies so much more valid and solid than personal anecdote. As they are designed to remove biases, falsify our theories and modify our thoughts on how and why things happen. Common sense is not something that most people possess a great amount of, thus the need for falsifying our beliefs against testable, real-world results.
So suggest to instead of looking at the word 'demons' and recoiling, to investigate in detail what is being shared, because how can you otherwise make an informed decision? Grammar is never a strong point of these people. It is a great demonstration that most of these people are not that highly educated. We make informed decisions by weighing up ALL the evidence, both for and against, and then making a judgement on the totality of this evidence. Is that not also the problem with families for example, in that we're brought up to place blind trust and to not ask questions? Contradicts what he was saying earlier; “At this moment I am cool with Desteni, I trust it.” If the problem is trusting people then we should definitely NOT place blind trust in this group until it has been publicly established that they are not a cult. I’m not sure what sort of family they were raised in but I was always taught to ask questions and that there are no silly questions. To me this comes across as another way to break down the family bond by suggesting that the family institution is responsible for the lack of critical thinking. The lack of critical thinking stems deeper than that and is not solely the responsibility of the family model. So by discrediting the family model they can reinforce the “stability” of their “family model”. I'd definitely suggest to investigate Desteni in detail so that you can stand clear in whatever decision you make (Yes, certainly do investigate Desteni in great detail so that you can stand clear in your decision) - that you are walking this process for yourself, that no one is exploiting you financially or otherwise and that you can share this in certainty with anyone that asks. “That no one is exploiting you either financially or otherwise” is a demonstration of how blindly these people follow the process without critically analysing it themselves. One only needs to read the documentation on the Desteni I Process (the way to earn an income) and you quickly see the pyramid of power rising. If this is not exploiting you financially I’m not sure what is? Paying monthly fees, plus course fees, to achieve a state of understanding that is not achievable through the greatest of universities or colleges is a blatant scam. If the information being provided is poor or speculative any form of payment for this is exploiting a person’s ignorance to the facts and their lack of critical research skills. And if they say they can express this with certainty to others it further demonstrates the depth these people get within this group. I find it spellbinding that people can be so blindly devoted to these things. At Desteni we've laid ALL the material that has been produced since 2007 out freely online. FALSE. There is limited information available from the organisation. The information that is available is poor and misinformed; offering proof of uncountable amounts of un-proven or proven incorrect information including everything from supporting Breatharianism to supporting Hollow Earth theory. The most absurd of non-scientific beliefs arise within the Desteni group as validated and proven. One only has to visit the Desteni I Process page to see how many years of PAID COURSES AND FEES you need to rise up within the Desteni System. It is all here, how Desteni was established, when, by who, for what purpose. Yes it is all there but not on the Desteni website. And I cannot fathom how anyone can read the story of Bernard Poolman and Sunnette and not laugh at how radically stupid it is.
There is no 'behind the scenes' of Desteni. Everything is shared in full disclosure. No, it is not shared in full disclosure, there is definitely a lot going on behind the scenes. And therefore to claim that there is something fishy going on without having done ANY background research is simply ignorant." Ignorance would be ignoring the overwhelming amount of evidence proving that this group is an active cult.
So, I'm sticking with it for now. The common downfall of a religious believer. At the least they’ll do it because it’s easier to go along with it than to ask questions and pass a critical eye over it.

The entire educational system of Desteni is based on the possessions experienced mostly by Sunnette. Once in these possessions Sunnette is able to provide the “truth” about everything in the world from world events to physics. Sunnette’s possessions include but are not limited to: a grain of sand, the first molecule, reptilian beings, alien beings, Marily Monroe, Kurt Cobain, an assault rifle, a leprechaun, a coffee cup, Adolf Hitler, Aleister Crowley, a panty liner, Freddie Mercury, a piece of toilet paper, Joseph Stalin, Bruce Lee, Jimmi Hendrix and a petrol pump.

During these possessions as strange objects and people she is able to tell us the truth about the world and how it works. So people ask questions, she becomes possessed and then tells you the answer as understood by the universe and its infinite knowledge. Almost all of these videos offer the opposite to the scientific facts and evidence. It is nothing but delusional ramblings that are being offered as an ultimate and innate spiritual understanding of the universe.

Let’s take a look at some of the crazy lies they tell and believe in:
Hollow Earth Theory
The Moon Landing Hoax
Reptilian Babies bred on Earth
Psychic abilities
Crop Circles caused by Mother Earth
Reiki/chakras
Viruses/disease are a result of your own self-deceit etc
Crazy theories on MS, Mental Illness, Depression, blood clots, eczema and many other diseases
Mind Possession/Backchat/Demon Possession
Inter-dimensional beings and Inter-Dimensional Portals
Gender Identity
The Law of Attraction
Human Vibrational Frequencies
Home schooling to avoid mainstream education
Effectiveness of prayer
Fairies, Orbs, Unicorns, the Mexican Flying Humanoid, EVP’s, Voodoo
12 Strand DNA Activation


And all of the evidence supplied by this organisation is discovered through the interviews with Sunnette possessed by one of the many crazy things she speaks as. This cannot get any more absurd or crazy.

A cult is really defined by their ability to trick and coerce members into staying yet feel like they have some sort of freedom. They are defined by their outrageous beliefs that set them well apart from the mainstream and their ability to make you feel that those beliefs are true. They offer the usual self-help processes and paths to enlightenment or some sort of understandable universal knowledge that is only achievable through the techniques they apply. The whole thing will sound romantic at first but by the time the victim realises what has happened it is too late and often harder to remove themselves from the situation.

There is so much info validating the fact that this group is a bizarre and strange new age cult whose creator has one thing in mind. Making money for little effort.




Marlen
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby Marlen » 16 Jan 2013, 06:07

All of these statements are not new to us since they are the same type of reasoning that any person that has launched any form of attack since Desteni emerged. However, I would like to know what he is mostly worried/ concerned about since this is a reply toward you in order to prevent you from - according to him - falling in some form of trap.

So, what I would suggest is definitely considering one single point: this is not about Desteni as a 'name,' this is about you supporting yourself with the tools that any person can apply for themselves regardless of being an active participant here or not. It's always interesting to see how any person that ends up speaking is such defamatory way about what we do/ who we are have had no direct approach to the group/ material within the starting point of self support but the direct opposite and as such, it will be quite easy to just make of the available information 'facts' that match to what they have 'identified' as indicatives of what a cult is or some type of hidden agenda organization.

I suggest he comes to the forum to expose his concerns and we will surely be open to discuss here at the forum - however, every time this has happened, no one has done so since they have already 'made up their mind' to remain within a righteous mode of being 'right' about their assessments based on knowledge and information they only read, but never correlated within their own practical application, which is the same as only reading stories/ internet-gossip type of information of which everything/ everyone that is a public figure/organization has, therefore, we can't change his mind, nor anyone's since there is no one to convince here.

Any person participating at Desteni understands who we are, what we are, what we stand for because they apply it, live it and as such understand from our own practical experience what the material is for, what the tools are for and how we are practically demonstrating the ability to become human beings that are walking this individual process to live the consideration of what's best for all, which certainly has had no precedent in our history and breaks the usual 'schemes' of what existing as real beings that care imply, but, this you'll have to see for yourself and anyone that participates here or not can also test this for themselves.

As for the money aspect, it is quite obvious that if you have no money in this world, you starve and no organization could remain 'alive' without money - I wonder why people attack us and never dare to question the entire system that we have accepted and allowed wherein one can only 'thrive' if you have enough money, yet criticize any form of business that is actually not creating products to sell rubbish as the majority of the current production in this world-system. I would invite him to actually acquire some interviews and review the content of them and apply some self honesty to see if any current specialist or 'self help' is providing such kind of support and explications about reality that are in fact a real life-changing perspective to understand life, and not only nice messages that protect the current system of abuse - such as new age groups and any other organization he is mentioning.

So, these are just some facts wherein we can only expect some real criticism to exist when an individual has in fact at least listened to a 1000 videos/ interviews or read some hundreds of blogs and then have an informed decision and yes, that means based on the available data such as audio/video/blogs/articles - and also having gone through the practical application of course, which means making the effort to apply the tools of self support could we have a real form of criticism/ feedback that is not obviously intended to suit their personal belief-system of being 'cult experts,' all such characters work exactly the same. Again, the person can come here themselves to give such feedback after he's done the afore mentioned process that one can consider an actual/ real in-depth practical investigation, not only based on naming titles of videos, internet-gossip and personal associations that are obviously meant to protect a claimed expertise in self interest.

I would like to know what is it that he fears the most within this all? And if such person really cares about you, then I would certainly not 'attack' the other point you as the person he 'cares for' but rather consider sharing common sense points that you can take into consideration when approaching someone/something in your reality, instead of using fear in order to create control, which lacks common sense as an overall assessment of the point he's trying to make.

I reiterate from what we've said many, many times throughout the past: Do Not Trust Desteni - trust yourself, no need to believe in anything since all of this process is walked for yourself/ by yourself and only common sense and self honesty can be the measuring point at all times, determined to generate a best for all outcome and this is certainly something that can't be fooled, the lives of people that are walking this process and becoming better living human beings cannot be a made up story either - but, this we will continue to prove to ourselves obviously, and that's the only test of time we can all attest to.

If you have any questions/ comments, share them so that we can give further perspectives if necessary.



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Juan Pablo
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby Juan Pablo » 16 Jan 2013, 06:15

From Marlen's reply, understand that the informed decision of 'desteni is a cult' is in fact based on information that is result of assumptions, all the information that exists in separation from Desteni itself, realize, are assumptions -- you can go and visit it -- and also you can check the answer given by the guy and realize how separated is from the message that we are living. 'Desteni is a cult' is just another character, because Desteni implies taking self-responsibility -- so it is sooooooooooo easy to blame, wherein we don't realize that we are fighting with ourselves only. Thus, Take a Stand, make a living decision, and apply it.

We are seeking knowledge and information to just justify CONsciousness, without even a little Clue of the detail of how knowledge and information is the speech of our personalities. Knowing more or less will not make ourselves decide what is Best for All, rather will make us choose what we want to choose. We don't want to change -- and there is the real decision.

Challenge what you know, live what's best for all and see for and as yourself that is best for all. And understand: you will receive no support from others to stand up for what is best for all, because we are brainwashed. Make sure to not choose the brainwashing, because the brainwashing will inevitably end at death. The process we are walking is faaaaaaar beyond knowledge and information, it is about who we are as the mind, and understanding who we are as the mind, will make sure that we cannot be brainwashed, because the mind is a program equal in all of us human beings, and once you start knowing how it functions, you realize only then that you can change -- and how this entire reality both inner and outer are equal and one.

The message is simple, take responsibility for and as yourself, give to yourself the opportunity to understand the existence as yourself instead of the limitation of knowledge and information. See with your eyes, live with your body, hear with your ears -- and decide what is truth, what you can see, live, and hear physically, or the beliefs of knowledge and information within your mind.

Enjoy.



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Cathy
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby Cathy » 16 Jan 2013, 06:36

In addition to the amazing reply by Marlen and Juan, I admit when I read the post's comments in red, I asked myself how is it that Desteni is still often completely misunderstood and how is the common sense message still so overlooked and then, of course I immediately realize it's because of who and what we are and have accepted, allowed and exist as = CONSCIOUSNESS = Self-Interest = Ego, Greed, Ignorance.

The fact is, I've been applying the tools and the message of Equality for awhile now and I couldn't care less if someone 'thinks' I'm in a cult.
I mean, lol, I'll stand here until the end of time in support of and together with the finest group of people I've ever known, who every single day continue to support a world/money system supportive of what's Best for All - no matter how much hate and spite and name calling is thrust in our direction. That doesn't matter. What matters is that Life become a living example of “Give as you would like to Receive”, “Do unto Another as you would Like to be Done Unto you”. Thus All Suffering End... That is all that matters.



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Anna
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby Anna » 16 Jan 2013, 08:22

In addition to what has already been mentioned a vital point - and an answer to why people are still not getting it, Cathy - is that this person is writing from within a cult themselves. They are brainwashed by the 'norm' to believe in human progress and scientific results. They use scientific language and an extended vocabulary to intimidate to submission by ridiculing others in the name of 'logic reasoning'. So of course everything we say will be categorized as cult speech which is why there in most cases is no point in discussing with these people. Because their decision that Desteni is a cult fits their agenda, which he is probably not even consciously aware of but that simply makes sense to his mind -- to keep the status quo. And to present what is going on, on earth at the moment as 'sanity'. All the while the earth is being rapidly destroyed by the same humans and the ones pointing that out are called crazy. So this is a protection system of the mind that equally exists inside self where we use parts of ourselves to create 'logic reasoning' that ridicule our self-honesty, for example in how fear can seem so logical. Therefore there's no point in arguing, it is simply a matter of not participating and directing one's action to stand as an example.



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kim amourette
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby kim amourette » 16 Jan 2013, 09:47

it is fascinating how, like Anna said, 'educated' human beings will use their knowledge and their ability to throw expensive words, explanations and arguments at anything and make it seem however it is that they want to make it seem --- how knowledge can form/shape the 'interpretation' of the listener/reader - which is what we do for ourselves in our minds all the time. Using knowledge and information as thoughts to shape and form the reality that we see with our eyes to suit whatever it is that we want to see, believe and experience. So, if anyone wants to convince themselves that 'Desteni is a cult', this will be a 'reality' for them within their BELIEF, based on their personal thoughts as knowledge and information, as the power of self-brainwashing. lol - so it's cool, because in this way each one really is responsible for their reality, locked up in our own personal bubble of whatever it is we choose to believe about reality --- which will obviously burst at death, as that which cannot be grasped/defined by these knowledge-spewing fuckers who believe that they hold the answers to everything, without ever even questioning where their precious thoughts even come from.

That's what 'science' has succumbed to - an ego 'show' where humans only use their acquired knowledge and information to make themselves seem great and 'complicated'/'insightful' to baffle and 'wow' everyone else, to gain a following for themselves, but without any real interest in questioning even the basic building blocks on which their reality is founded upon, which is their own mind --- lol, in this way science has become in fact the exact opposite of 'investigation' and 'questioning', which makes it no wonder that science up to this point has been unable to come up with real solutions for the problems in this world.

Kim



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sylvia
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby sylvia » 16 Jan 2013, 10:25

It'a actually interesting to see how a family member, which equals a cult member when we take the genetical and social preprogramming into consideration, is trying to avoid you getting out of the family cult in order to become life. And with getting out of the family, I do not mean breaking all ties with your family, but no longer buying the lie of love and family comes first kind of thing. Humanity can be one big family, where we give to one another as we like to receive ourselves, though we prefer to stick with a little family in separation of the big family and being prepared to fight for the freedom of the own family. And that's what you see with your cousin, he considers you as a renegade and in order to maintain his easy life and status within the family, he is prepared to fight for this cause to keep you in the family. He doesn't care whether he has to lie for it, when he tells these lies a few times he starts believing it himself. So who's prone to falling for crappy lies here. Isn't life all in reverse? In a way this is a great response from a family member that through his words shows you who he really is. That gives you the opportunity to see whether he supports life or his own self-interest. It's up to you whether you choose to walk your own process, no matter the lies and truths others 'think' they have to share with you from a point of self-interest. When you choose life and process great we're here to support and assist you like everybody else on the forum, if you do not choose the path of change that's fine too...



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Leila
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Re: Desteni: Cult or not?

Postby Leila » 16 Jan 2013, 11:10

It's also interesting to see what is seen as 'crazy' -- I mean really, what's more crazy, that a portal exists or that after so many years of apparent 'evolution' most beings on the planet are worse off then ever. If living in a world where suffering of the majority has become a 'normalcy', then obviously anything that deviates from that and wants to change the world to be a place that's Best for All must be complete madness - how this world is all in reverse...

People like to back up their talk with 'science' -- but so far science has done nothing but fail us, and has therefore really invalidated itself as something reliable to fall back on. We've been doing 'normal' for ever -- it's not working, it's time to think outside of the box.




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