Yogan's current perspective on SF

Ask questions related to applying self forgiveness and walking self corrective application
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YoganBarrientos
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Joined: 03 Sep 2011, 23:19
Location: Miami, Florida

Yogan's current perspective on SF

Postby YoganBarrientos » 16 Oct 2014, 22:35

Hi I would like to share a perspective on Self-forgiveness. So throughout my life, I am 24 years old, I remember how in my early years, I developed a resistance to saying sorry to someone, because when I would fight with my brother and I started it, my parents would ask me to say I am sorry. It felt like I would be giving in, and saying that my brother is right, and I was wrong. So within the word sorry, is the word forgiveness, because when I say sorry to someone, they forgive me. So initially I had resistance to self-forgiveness because it was like I was giving in, saying I was sorry and that I did something wrong.

So I have been walking the desteni process for many years now, and my perspective on self-forgiveness, even forgiveness and saying sorry has changed. Though on deeper layers of myself I do react. So I would like to share where I am at now. So one point is how when you forgive yourself, it is a point of power, it is no longer you asking someone else for forgiveness, and they have to decide whether you were convincing enough or sorry enough. I identify that as one reason why I resisted forgiveness, because it was still a battlefield between human, not genuine real change, trust, honesty and genuine expression. So that's one cool point about self-forgiveness, you don't have to convince anyone, and your forgiveness won't change depending on whether others believe you. The only one that matters, is you. Your able to live the change, honesty, and genuine expression. So that's cool.

Another more deeper layer, is how when someone has walked self-forgiveness for many years they are aware of the more subtle manipulations that one tries to do, subconsciously, or unconsciously, when writing or speaking self-forgiveness. So because one is, from one perspective, absolutely alone in their self-forgiveness, they have to deal with all the layers of shit that accumulated from 20+ years of living. So that kind of shit, the manipulation, hidden blame and justification, will appear in the self-forgiveness initially because it already exists inside of us, and it tries to show up, because it is present. This I identify as a great or tremendous gift because if the mind's layers didn't try showing up, then it would be a much more difficult process. Each time it shows up it is an opportunity to face it. So that's cool how the mind is automated to do that. So that is also why its useful to write self-forgiveness in a way so that others who have walked the manipulation and justification aspects, for instance, can assist and support by also showing you it too. Because initially one will not see it as justification and manipulation or blame, because it was never called that before while one did it before, and so other people who have walked it already can identify it and point it out, just like how the mind is trying to do automatically. So in essence, its the same principle, to show you what exists within you. And of course, the more effort you put into seeing yourself and how you actually exist, the more you will see. That is why this process is not only completely voluntary, but the results thereof rest completely on your effort. The more effort you place, the more your willing to learn, and listen, and learn from your mistakes, the more that results and happens. So in a way, this process and its results, speaks directly about who you are, the kind of being you are. What you put in, is what you get out of it, simple, no? And isn't the process of investing yourself, the quality of your being, the quality and quantity of who you are, the most valuable thing you can be spending your time in? Because the greater quality and quantity of being that you are, the rest of your pursuits will be more likely to reach fruition. You would study more effectively and efficiently, work for longer, faster, reach more people etc... Because in getting to know yourself, change yourself, and walk through whole process through a forgiveness, you will access to parts of yourself that were either difficult or impossible to access before, that maybe you can make last only for a while, previously. There is no greater investment other than yourself, and the selves of others...

That is why the value of self-forgiveness is immeasurable, if you could put a price on selling to someone their ability to forgive themselves, you could sell it at a million dollars. Because self-forgiveness is the key to unlocking your true potential, because it literally unlocks that which was previously stuck and rigid, and unwilling to change. To forgive yourself is to literally change yourself in the moment of speaking/writing it. Self-forgiveness=change. Now to qualify the point, chances are your 18+ years old, so you have for many years walked a process of thinking. If you asked someone that has done something daily for so many years, to stop, would they? There are deeper layers, that are subconscious and unconscious, which is like a memory banks of a person that stores everything you have ever thought and done. So there is like a record that make you accountable for all you have done in this life. So one will have to face all of that. You can't wish away the past or simply say "I forgive all my past." When you were a baby, fresh born, you were not already the person you are now, you had to create yourself, think and imagine in your mind, think about the future, your desire, your hopes, dreams, about the kind of person you are, the kind of things you like, and the list goes on. You created the person that is here today, what you call the bad and good. So to recreate yourself will take another process, one that is different in a great respect. You will be starting out small like a seed, and slowly but surely grow. With each written word, sentence and statement, you are creating yourself, so you start your journey to life. Slowly but surely building on what you see now, what you have available now, that you see you can accomplish and do. Slowly but surely testing your limits, pushing more and more into new areas and unexplored areas within yourself. With each victory you will have a new found awareness, and slowly build your skill, like building a muscle, being able to move a little faster, do a little more, and eventually, which you may not even be aware of it, you have already changed a great deal. This is what verifies this process, and really shows that its real. What other group of people are walking similar to this? The closest I see are activities that are physical, learning to drive a car or bike, or building your body muscles, or preparing something. Doing such things give you a physical change, but it isn't the change of self that you're after. To actually change your anger, your jealousy, self-pity, sadness, is another story. I have personally walked a process related to enlightenment and psychology. When a process overemphasizes feeling positive, you know it is only offering a way to suppress your emotions. The only way to walk sadness, anger, jealousy, is to walk through it, in detail, and understanding of how you created it. That is something you do through writing and self-forgiveness. Does anyone else offer such an exact and detailed approach, that is in your hands, meaning that you verify it. Do you really believe that you have released anger and jealousy because you feel happy for this moment? Let me tell you, its just for that moment, and moments change. A real test would be being able to stand in front of what made you angry and sad or jealous previously and not be that way. That's how you really know. And suppression will never be an answer, its suppression. To change is to really change, which can only be done as an act of creation and specificity done in awareness. And to start out this process will be messy, and as you do anything completely new, its messy. Fortunately each new person will have greater support than the one before him. And fortunately your time is limited, meaning, you will die, so you have to act now!

So to forgive is to start out doing it, and learning how, through mistakes and doing it. The more you do it, the more chances you will have to realize when it is effective and when it isn't. You will test it in as many ways as possible, for you are the point of cross-reference. You will compare your notes with others who also self-forgive and see what works, and learn by challenging yourself. With each new discovery and revelation, you start fine tuning and adjusting your self-forgiveness according to your situation, to get the result you are after. Sometimes you will have to start from scratch. Other times you have to challenge and push yourself while doubting yourself. Sometimes you will just have to see, by actually doing it, and seeing for yourself. In the end you will end up only caring about yourself, and results for you, because it is after all SELF-forgiveness, if you are not doing it for yourself, then who are you doing it for? And so that's the story of creation, its something real, live in this moment, occurring in many different people all across the world. And remember its nothing really something about forgiveness, because their is a principle or set of principles behind self-forgiveness that is what you are actually living, and so someone can be living those principles and walking the same process you are with self-forgiveness, without using those words. So they may walk it differently, but they still walk the principles. Of course, its very nice to have a structure that is proven to work.

Everyone who is walking this is very fortunate, and they are deserving, because it is a service that they provided to themselves. It only works because you make it work, by walking the process, and writing the words. So everyone is already embarking and starting with the smallest amount of awareness, the path of creator. Because words are the foundation of ourselves, and to write is literally to create, not only some written work, but you are creating yourself, as an act of creation, as a living thing. That is the greatest gift you can give yourself, which benefits not only you but this existence as a whole, and all the other potential life forms. We are like in the beginning, a place very dark where no life exists, and the potential of life is there, and it is slowly but surely emerging putting pressure on all sides, on specific, points, growing in all directions, pushing for an opening. It will be like a ripping sensation, a bursting effect. Because real life is physical and the physical is forceful, I mean its real, not just an imagination. That is what we will become, a force, something physical, something real. So don't wait, start being life, start being physical, push, force, be a force in your life. Create!

Thanks for reading my perspective on self-forgiveness.
Yogan



User avatar
Garrisao
Posts: 2
Joined: 23 Apr 2015, 08:49

Re: Yogan's current perspective on SF

Postby Garrisao » 23 Apr 2015, 08:51

This knowledge is very useful to me.



Grathe
Posts: 1
Joined: 19 Aug 2016, 14:45

Re: Yogan's current perspective on SF

Postby Grathe » 20 Aug 2016, 06:14

Hi I would like to share a perspective on Self-forgiveness. So throughout my life, I am 24 years old, I remember how in my early years, I developed a resistance to saying sorry to someone, because when I would fight with my brother and I started it, my parents would ask me to say I am sorry. It felt like I would be giving in, and saying that my brother is right, and I was wrong. So within the word sorry, is the word forgiveness, because when I say sorry to someone, they forgive me. So initially I had resistance to self-forgiveness because it was like I was giving in, saying I was sorry and that I did something wrong.

So I have been walking the desteni process for many years now, and my perspective on self-forgiveness, even forgiveness and saying sorry has changed. Though on deeper layers of myself I do react. So I would like to share where I am at now. So one point is how when you forgive yourself, it is a point of power, it is no longer you asking someone else for forgiveness, and they have to decide whether you were convincing enough or sorry enough. I identify that as one reason why I resisted forgiveness, because it was still a battlefield between human, not genuine real change, trust, honesty and genuine expression. So that's one cool point about self-forgiveness, you don't have to convince anyone, and your forgiveness won't change depending on whether others believe you. The only one that matters, is you. Your able to live the change, honesty, and genuine expression. So that's cool.

Another more deeper layer, is how when someone has walked self-forgiveness for many years they are aware of the more subtle manipulations that one tries to do, subconsciously, or unconsciously, when writing or speaking self-forgiveness. So because one is, from one perspective, absolutely alone in their self-forgiveness, they have to deal with all the layers of shit that accumulated from 20+ years of living. So that kind of shit, the manipulation, hidden blame and justification, will appear in the self-forgiveness initially because it already exists inside of us, and it tries to show up, because it is present. This I identify as a great or tremendous gift because if the mind's layers didn't try showing up, then it would be a much more difficult process. Each time it shows up it is an opportunity to face it. So that's cool how the mind is automated to do that. So that is also why its useful to write self-forgiveness in a way so that others who have walked the manipulation and justification aspects, for instance, can assist and support by also showing you it too. Because initially one will not see it as justification and manipulation or blame, because it was never called that before while one did it before, and so other people who have walked it already can identify it and point it out, just like how the mind is trying to do automatically. So in essence, its the same principle, to show you what exists within you. And of course, the more effort you put into seeing yourself and how you actually exist, the more you will see. That is why this process is not only completely voluntary, but the results thereof rest completely on your effort. The more effort you place, the more your willing to learn, and listen, and learn from your mistakes, the more that results and happens. So in a way, this process and its results, speaks directly about who you are, the kind of being you are. What you put in, is what you get out of it, simple, no? And isn't the process of investing yourself, the quality of your being, the quality and quantity of who you are, the most valuable thing you can be spending your time in? Because the greater quality and quantity of being that you are, the rest of your pursuits will be more likely to reach fruition. You would study more effectively and efficiently, work for longer, faster, reach more people etc... Because in getting to know yourself, change yourself, and walk through whole process through a forgiveness, you will access to parts of yourself that were either difficult or impossible to access before, that maybe you can make last only for a while, previously. There is no greater investment other than yourself, and the selves of others...

That is why the value of self-forgiveness is immeasurable, if you could put a price on selling to someone their ability to forgive themselves, you could sell it at a million dollars. Because self-forgiveness is the key to unlocking your true potential, because it literally unlocks that which was previously stuck and rigid, and unwilling to change. To forgive yourself is to literally change yourself in the moment of speaking/writing it. Self-forgiveness=change. Now to qualify the point, chances are your 18+ years old, so you have for many years walked a process of thinking. If you asked someone that has done something daily for so many years, to stop, would they? There are deeper layers, that are subconscious and unconscious, which is like a memory banks of a person that stores everything you have ever thought and done. So there is like a record that make you accountable for all you have done in this life. So one will have to face all of that. You can't wish away the past or simply say "I forgive all my past." When you were a baby, fresh born, you were not already the person you are now, you had to create yourself, think and imagine in your mind, think about the future, your desire, your hopes, dreams, about the kind of person you are, the kind of things you like, and the list goes on. You created the person that is here today, what you call the bad and good. So to recreate yourself will take another process, one that is different in a great respect. You will be starting out small like a seed, and slowly but surely grow. With each written word, sentence and statement, you are creating yourself, so you start your journey to life. Slowly but surely building on what you see now, what you have available now, that you see you can accomplish and do. Slowly but surely testing your limits, pushing more and more into new areas and unexplored areas within yourself. With each victory you will have a new found awareness, and slowly build your skill, like building a muscle, being able to move a little faster, do a little more, and eventually, which you may not even be aware of it, you have already changed a great deal. This is what verifies this process, and really shows that its real. What other group of people are walking similar to this? The closest I see are activities that are physical, learning to drive a car or bike, or building your body muscles, or preparing something. Doing such things give you a physical change, but it isn't the change of self that you're after. To actually change your anger, your jealousy, self-pity, sadness, is another story. I have personally walked a process related to enlightenment and psychology. When a process overemphasizes feeling positive, you know it is only offering a way to suppress your emotions. The only way to walk sadness, anger, jealousy, is to walk through it, in detail, and understanding of how you created it. That is something you do through writing and self-forgiveness. Does anyone else offer such an exact and detailed approach, that is in your hands, meaning that you verify it. Do you really believe that you have released anger and jealousy because you feel happy for this moment? Let me tell you, its just for that moment, and moments change. A real test would be being able to stand in front of what made you angry and sad or jealous previously and not be that way. That's how you really know. And suppression will never be an answer, its suppression. To change is to really change, which can only be done as an act of creation and specificity done in awareness. And to start out this process will be messy, and as you do anything completely new, its messy. Fortunately each new person will have greater support than the one before him. And fortunately your time is limited, meaning, you will die, so you have to act now!

So to forgive is to start out doing it, and learning how, through mistakes and doing it. The more you do it, the more chances you will have to realize when it is effective and when it isn't. You will test it in as many ways as possible, for you are the point of cross-reference. You will compare your notes with others who also self-forgive and see what works, and learn by challenging yourself. With each new discovery and revelation, you start fine tuning and adjusting your self-forgiveness according to your situation, to get the result you are after. Sometimes you will have to start from scratch. Other times you have to challenge and push yourself while doubting yourself. Sometimes you will just have to see, by actually doing it, and seeing for yourself. In the end you will end up only caring about yourself, and results for you, because it is after all SELF-forgiveness, if you are not doing it for yourself, then who are you doing it for? And so that's the story of creation, its something real, live in this moment, occurring in many different people all across the world. And remember its nothing really something about forgiveness, because their is a principle or set of principles behind self-forgiveness that is what you are actually living, and so someone can be living those principles and walking the same process you are with self-forgiveness, without using those words. So they may walk it differently, but they still walk the principles. Of course, its very nice to have a structure that is proven to work.

Everyone who is walking this is very fortunate, and they are deserving, because it is a service that they provided to themselves. It only works because you make it work, by walking the process, and writing the words. So everyone is already embarking and starting with the smallest amount of awareness, the path of creator. Because words are the foundation of ourselves, and to write is literally to create, not only some written work, but you are creating yourself, as an act of creation, as a living thing. That is the greatest gift you can give yourself, which benefits not only you but this existence as a whole, and all the other potential life forms. We are like in the beginning, a place very dark where no life exists, and the potential of life is there, and it is slowly but surely emerging putting pressure on all sides, on specific, points, growing in all directions, pushing for an opening. It will be like a ripping sensation, a bursting effect. Because real life is physical and the physical is forceful, I mean its real, not just an imagination. That is what we will become, a force, something physical, something real. So don't wait, start being life, start being physical, push, force, be a force in your life. Create!

Thanks for reading my perspective on self-forgiveness.
Yogan

Your perception about self-forgiving are very lucid. It is indeed very hard to uderstand the idea of it because not all people have the guts to forgive. But it is very rewarding to self-forgive because Christ also did the same thing.



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Maite
Posts: 571
Joined: 13 Jun 2011, 19:08

Re: Yogan's current perspective on SF

Postby Maite » 20 Aug 2016, 19:41

Hi Grathe,

Welcome to the Desteni Forums! Would be cool if you could make a post in the 'Introduce yourself' section (viewforum.php?f=1) and tell us a bit more about yourself.

If you look more into the Desteni principles, you'll see that they are not new, actually, many religions advocate the same points. At Desteni, we investigate what living such principles practically entails and then apply them in our daily life - in thought, word and deed.

Looking forward to reading more of you!



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Tom
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 00:44

Re: Yogan's current perspective on SF

Postby Tom » 21 Aug 2016, 15:54

Hi Grathe.

I like this post about self-forgiveness as well. Idea behind it is actually not that hard to understand. I liked the comparison from Yogan self-forgiveness=change. It's a change in ourselves, our pattern, behaviour, reaction, habbit, whatever based in self-honest retrospection and understanding what is actually serving you/working for you. As you said the hard part is the guts to look into the truth, which is very ugly. Regarding the Crist I am still reading the bible, but I think Crist wasn't actually correcting his behavior, he already knew what the best for all action was and just did it. The story in the bible starts at the point that he has already forgiven himself.



User avatar
Gian
Posts: 1024
Joined: 14 Jun 2011, 22:18

Re: Yogan's current perspective on SF

Postby Gian » 21 Aug 2016, 17:40

cool post here Yogan.



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JessicaArias
Posts: 47
Joined: 11 Apr 2012, 05:41

Re: Yogan's current perspective on SF

Postby JessicaArias » 04 Sep 2016, 23:43

Thanks for sharing Yogan :D cool



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YoganBarrientos
Posts: 247
Joined: 03 Sep 2011, 23:19
Location: Miami, Florida

Re: Yogan's current perspective on SF

Postby YoganBarrientos » 13 Sep 2016, 05:27

Hey Tom.
I agree that in the bible, it doesn't speak about how Christ became who he was. He was already at the point of living his principles in the beginning of the book. That is partially why I enjoy Desteni so much, is because many groups offer some ways to, let's say, reach that point of the utmost human potential, but no other group made so much sense to me in what I have already seen and observed directly about my own mind. I have spent much time reflecting on myself and how my mind works, which is why I am so confident to say what I do, because I am simply speaking about my own mind and my own process when I speak about the mind and how I work with it. That is also why I tend to say, to not believe a word that I say but test it out for yourself. Which is what desteni has repeated in its material. So that is really cool and quite unique in these days. Anyway, I just wanted to chat for a bit. Cheers.




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