On the film, OBEY

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thomaslagrua
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On the film, OBEY

Postby thomaslagrua » 01 Mar 2013, 10:15

On the film, Obey http://vimeo.com/59002146
Having just watched the film, “Obey”, I figured I might as well share how I saw/interpreted the origin/direction of the film. The way I interpret the film, “Obey” is that the message is at points, aligned with the message of Desteni. The film doesn't present a solution; it paints a picture of the Past, Present, and possible future, and calls on the people to Rebel – as in ring the bell, wake up, and realize that if we continue down this path, it's only going to get worse. For people to hear a solution, they must first realize there is a problem, and this is what I interpreted as the purpose of the film being, to wake people up to realize there is a problem.



Marlen
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Re: On the film, OBEY

Postby Marlen » 01 Mar 2013, 12:58

We have certainly had various inputs on this. I'll share mine

First time I watched it I wasn't really 'watching,' I only heard it which means: the music + Chris Hedges' words narrated by someone else. The message in itself then was clear enough, he doesn't endorse violence but civil disobedience as a last resort in what he has usually defined as a world taken over by a corporate coup d'etat. He also endorses movements like Occupy Wall Street, however for now I won't focus on what he proposes as an individual, but how the video got shaped and formed to lead to a particular conclusion.

Later on I watched the actual video with all the flashing images and quotes along with the music, I realized how the narration was being emphasized by the nature of the chaotic treatment of the images and the sounds, which I found cool coming from the perspective of myself as a personality being prone to liking that type of industrial-repetitive-fast-glitchy type of visuals and noises, which is then something I've been used to liking having a background of watching music videos for various years in my life where these effects and treatments are regularly used. The use of 'Invert' might be a way to evade copyright claims, which I also found useful and 'clever' for the sake of copyright protection. This is my experience which I was later on able to compare/ place into perspective when reading others' perspectives about it.

As I explained in the vlog OBEY - a Review, one has to be very aware of the Message, the words and not being 'taken for a ride' by the mix of words, sounds, images where many people commented on being annoyed, irritated or disturbed by the sounds and images. I first categorized it as a cool 'experimental video' however when reading other's perspectives, I realized that the video in its entirety could be deliberately instigating a reaction within the viewer to be absolutely driven to or comply to the final resolution 'REBEL,' which is quite clearly placed as a last inquiry on the video itself. Here is to clarify that such conclusion/ resolution is the Video Maker/Producer's perspective, it is no longer Hedges words leaving such conclusion in place.

It does align in a way with what Desteni has presented over the years and what Bernard has explained numerous times as well, however the gigantic difference is that in the Desteni Material, there is no call for revolution or rebellion at all, if any it is to stand up to the system within Self Responsibility which is what we see is the way to ensure that any form of change and transition takes all parts into consideration, since 'Rebellion' implies war and separation as I've written out in the following blogs as well, which are related to power structures, monetary system and how rebellion that stands as another source for wars, separation and hatred than any solution in fact:

311. You Want ‘All The Power’?

312. Are Rebellion and War the Same?

314. How does Rebelling support Corporations?

I do agree with promoting the video as a way to 'Wake Up!' however every time it is shared or recommended,I suggest letting the person/people know that there are actual solutions to be implemented other than rebelling/ retaliating or resorting to civil disobedience, which would only make of our current 'living' situation far worse.

So, we present the solutions, the video serves as a way to inform, educate and illustrate what we often take for granted, but let's keep in mind that there are definitive interests behind this type of propaganda, which is not linked to Hedges himself, but how words can be stirred and directed and pumped up with audiovisuals in order to create an Experience in the mind of the viewer, and that's where one has to be cautious about as a viewer.

I definitely enjoyed it, but obviously don't agree with everything said as a certain future, it will only be so if we accept and allow it.

Thanks for opening up the discussion and feedback, Thomas



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Rebecca Dalmas
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Re: On the film, OBEY

Postby Rebecca Dalmas » 01 Mar 2013, 14:22

I read Thomas's comment, and immediately thought, which Marlen then spoke about, was that this video promotes rebellion, within this, the very nature of the visual effect is building an energy of chaos. I mean if we are visually lead, then the picture, in whole- a moving one at that- as what this video presents is in itself an emotional polarity creating a conditioned reaction that serves the very thing it speaks against.
Which I then ask myself, what would be a visual movement on a screen that would emphasize what is good that is prevention? Could a video compose an actual movement that is stimulating towards solution, where the whole "rhythm" of the video itself speaks of direction?
THis one offers frenzy, even as it states obvious outcome.
How do we "sell" Utopia and get the message across that we are going to have to buy this for ourselves? ( I ask myself this)



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andreateale
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Re: On the film, OBEY

Postby andreateale » 01 Mar 2013, 16:40

One of the things that I saw missing in the film or something that seems to always occur in films like this is that the who causes this is always out of the equation. It is always those bad guys out there and we have to get them or rebel against them before they get us. It never has anything to do with the observer and how they had anything to do with it by their lifestyle, that really the majority of people don't want to know, but just want to watch TV, party, pick up girls, do drugs, get the latest fashions because they feel separate from it and they don't think they make any difference. So it's like something will get aroused in them that there is something really fucked up going on, they will blame the corporations and somewhere in the back of their minds they think there might me a day coming where they will have to fight in the streets but fuck it, I am going to have fun until it does, I don't care. There is no connection with the fact that they buy clothes or electronics made by slaves, that the country they live in is like the Roman Empire who goes out and attacks other countries for resources and kills millions of innocent people. So without that connection to them it is still out there and someone else's problem. How many people would really go out and rebel when it came down to it? Probably only when their cozy lifestyle is no more.

There are not many films that actually show solutions like people talking, working out solutions. John Pilger's film on Hugo Chavez shows people getting together in the barrios, discussing their neighborhoods, health care and schooling their children in Venezuela. They of course are fortunate that their country has a vast oil income and that Chavez is reforming government for the poor but still they take responsibility for their neighborhoods and collaborate with their neighbors. There are lots of places like that but if people don't see that is a possibility or how to do it , it doesn't register in the brains of Americans. They don't even know their neighbors.

The school system has dumbed people down and they don't know how to participate with others. I have witnessed this since the crash in 2008 trying to help people save their houses. They think they did everything right by mortgaging their houses to the hilt and buying tons of useless crap and then want to be saved so they can go out and do it again, instead of asking why did it happen in the first place. What did I do to create this? They still point the finger at everyone else except that they were complicit in it. They don't care that the system used them to mortgage their house for more money to buy weapons and bomb Iraq to get all the oil there. I want my flat screen TV! They don't see the connection.

So without the connection, it's just these big bad corporations out there, that lots of people work for by the way, and they still want their 401K's even if they are stealing other country's water. I met someone who worked for Bechtel on a plane and they had no idea that they were usurping other country's water. No connection. Do you think they would give up their retirement plan because the corporation they work for kills people in Bolivia? Not in your life



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Re: On the film, OBEY

Postby Marlen » 01 Mar 2013, 17:43

This is a very important aspect and we can look at how it boils down to education: being disconnected from it all as if it was some villain story with no direct awareness of Our Responsibility as part of it, as the creators of it. I absolutely agree how it's always pointing fingers at 'bad bad corporations' and there's no understanding within that, or Not wanting to understand how we have created it.

I once held a long discussion with an anarchist about corporations, there was no sense of responsibility and deliberately ignoring the fact that everything we eat, what he was wearing, the fact that he had enough money to travel around the country and be condescendent with a minority of people in this country had nothing to do with 'corporations.' When there is a deliberate blindfold and Righteousness to it, it is like talking to a dead body, and I agree with that.

So, even if it seems impossible to make people realize what we are all working for, we have our mouths and words to speak about it, it's lack of information that causes this as well as a deliberate desire to keep themselves to 'what FEELS right to do' which is rebelling, antagonizing, protesting, because in this, they are the 'indignados'/ the victims and as such hold the RIGHT to fight for their RIGHTS, which is ultimately the same point used in capitalism to pursue happiness... which is what I'll be writing about today.

This would actually go for the EMS Forum, but i'm interested in knowing about the views on Chavez since I once met some German sociologist that explained all of this communal arrangement, but still there is corruption and that seems to be a general problem that prevents any great idea of a system to work properly. So we could open up a topic there, just to not deviate from giving perspectives and experiences while watching OBEY.

I can see how from the perspective of general people watching this getting the sense of 'Yeaah! let's do it, but let me enjoy my life till the max until I have to face the inevitable.' Something along those lines, this is where we boil down to the point of: does watching the movie really affect our senses to lighten up common sense or does it remain just as another instrument to promote the opposite of self responsibility? At the moment, it seems the latter is what's commonly being grasped, because that's in accordance to our current youth-vibe of protesting and rioting.

If we haven't learned already from the atrocities that happened in the 20th century such as world wars and heinous genocides, massacres, bombs and general decay, then what will? And that's why the documentary can serve as a way to show the obvious that is preventable from continuing, because it's already happening.

Thanks for sharing Andrea.



Marlen
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Re: On the film, OBEY

Postby Marlen » 01 Mar 2013, 17:54

Which I then ask myself, what would be a visual movement on a screen that would emphasize what is good that is prevention? Could a video compose an actual movement that is stimulating towards solution, where the whole "rhythm" of the video itself speaks of direction?
THis one offers frenzy, even as it states obvious outcome.
How do we "sell" Utopia and get the message across that we are going to have to buy this for ourselves? ( I ask myself this)

That's a cool observation of course. And ourselves will have to work on that, because we also have documentaries like HOME that explain in great visual detail what the devastation implies, all that we are inflicting onto the Earth - yet at the very end there's this bright-light future which leaves everyone with a 'good taste in their mouths/eyes' after being aware of the destruction, which has to do with 'cultivating the sun' but there's no direct solution giving either. Then again on that same documentary with great visuals you get people saying comments like:

  • "I Muted the sound on this vid. instead I listened to: HHT at Fantasy Studios - Orphan's Lament.mov in a diff youtube page. Enjoy!"


It would probably be cool to not go to both extremes of the bad and the beautiful, but intertwine current outcomes, mixed with what can be 'saved' or what we can keep from our current system. The hope that will be placed is a certainty that can be measured in an accountable system where every being will be taken into consideration. All that these documentaries we've watched over the years lack is a resolution that is practical and political in nature, so that's where we have to step in.

Thanks for sharing Rebecca



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andreateale
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Re: On the film, OBEY

Postby andreateale » 02 Mar 2013, 03:46

I don't know what the real story is about Hugo Chavez. I don't think he is corrupt. Watch the documentary to get a sense. http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-war-on-democracy
He does say he is anti-imperialist and stuck his finger up to the US. Just the fact that he is so vilified by the US and says it the way it is makes me think he's ok. He says he lives the teachings of Jesus and he has helped a lot of poor people have a decent live. I would hate to see what happens if the opposition takes over and they destroy everything he has built and the poor have to suffer again. They say he is fighting for his life right now with cancer and hasn't been seen for awhile. Que lastima! This might be my biological robot talking but he is a hero to me. I have had lots of arguments about him with people who are very right wing and watch Fox News. Other people think the US poisoned him and have been trying to assassinate him especially with the last coup attempt. It's not like the US hasn't done that before in Latin America.



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Jeanne
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Re: On the film, OBEY

Postby Jeanne » 02 Mar 2013, 14:52

Hi all,
I wrote a bit about the film versus Hedges' book yesterday and I am going chapter by chapter through the Hedges book to see what is useful for us.
Chris Hedges' book is a critique of liberalism in the United States and as such it does not provide a practical solution or plan.

Civil disobedience on it’s own offers no solution.

Hedges writes, “what endures is not the fact of democratic liberalism, but the myth of it.” As Hedges points out, the US has been in a state of permanent was since WWII –so there is no a virtuous past to reclaim.

Hedges wants to pin the lack of challenge to the system on the liberal class, “The liberal class refuses to recognize the obvious, because it does not want to lose it’s comfortable and often well-paid perch.” This is a superficial attribution of blame onto a easy target while ignoring the universal programmed nature of self-interest.

It’s true enough, as Hedges writes, that the “liberal class” in the US has been in an elite position and as such COULD have stood up and made a difference but the fact is, no one is exempt from responsibility; there is an equal distribution of “not standing up” and until we get to the point – like any good addict – where each of come to self-honesty:”HELLO, My name is Jeanne, and I am equally responsible for the condition of this world” we are all just so many rebels – not only without a cause – without a solution.



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SylvieJacobs
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'OBEY': the Haters Phenomena benefit the Corporate El

Postby SylvieJacobs » 02 Mar 2013, 17:30

Here are the points Bernard shared within wednesday's chat:

OBEY Documentary: the Haters Phenomena benefit the Corporate Elite extremely well

“As you would have noticed, it explains the all haters phenomena very well, and that the hater phenomena benefit the corporate Elite extremely well. This point needs to be addressed in blogs and vlogs and pointing out to people that to join to hater groups is counterproductive as it’s support the corporate state in fact, the very thing the haters claims to not support. Some hater though, are in fact sponsored by corporations to spread hate as it is through disinformation that propaganda is disseminated to try and annihilate opposition to the ideas of profit. You can check *Eleonora's blog on the Italian election where labelling is used to try and demonize new emerging groups in politics.” (see down below for the link)

“Another point you will notice in this documentary is that the other extreme emerge where people become passively positive into humans that talk a lot but do nothing. This phenomena especially emerged in spirituality since the 1970s and made sure that those that could make a difference in the world would divert the potential to another form of happiness they find in spirituality. Since the 1990s spirituality also became consumer product and more and more people started charging for positive type of spiritual work. This was obviously to great benefit for the corporations as the consumer will now look deliberately for the good in everything regardless of the damage he does.”

“So understand, whether intentionally or not, there is a side effect to this documentary as rebelling becomes the way the corporate can motivate local and federal authority to engage more laws, more police, more security and thus the rebelling part we could consider being an influence of the corporate control to misdirect people away from politics by claiming that democracy can never work. So whether this was done intentionally is uncertain but certainly, we can see with Occupy Wall Street that the control has increased, we have reached the stage of classical totalitarians.”

“The obvious solution is education, specifically focussing on the fact that politics is the legal way through which even the corporations now gaining power and therefore, it is the legal way for the populous to regain power. Any form of rebelling will allow the corporations to put in more control as they already done since OWS started. The haters also benefit the corporation as it will allow them to put more control on the Internet and to eventually charge for everything one use in the internet, just like water. Therefore, it is to the benefit of the corporation to develop and sponsor hater groups.”

"The demon possession will cause disruptions in society and so the corporations can up security etc. using that as a reason for enhancing their presence and so make more money.”

“There will be more people becoming spiritual as spirituality will follow those with money that has some security in the system. It will start to turn when all people with money is spiritual.”

“So I suggest that we use the documentary ‘Obey’ to educate people, some will react negatively and some in fear, some will be triggered by the flashing images and become demon possessed which will benefit the corporation in the short term and us in the long term. We will walk and continue to educate and impress on people the importance of writing as a tool of self education.”

“Understand that the consequences of the current system will be with us for many more years and you are going to have to stand strong and keep on disseminating common sense and slowly one by one, people will join us.”

*Eleonora's blogpost Day 275: Hear Here – Italian Elections 2013 – Direct Democracy vs Alzheimer http://adirectorjourneystolife.blogspot ... tions.html



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thomaslagrua
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Re: On the film, OBEY

Postby thomaslagrua » 03 Mar 2013, 16:32

Really cool points, all of which I tend to agree, all or in part. A part of me views this struggle/process as a war to direct the mines to the point of solution. It's such a simple solution - equality and oneness, yet so few seem able or willing to hear - as though this simplest of messages is on a Frequency that has been tuned out. So I consider (without conclusion) the possibility that videos such as "Obey", (sent out on a wide-band frequency interlaced with short-waves of "wake up!, wake up!" are perhaps doing their part to wake up the people by introducing them to other frequencies, and guiding them ever so slightly to another direction.




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