Speaking up for myself VS Voicing myself - 19 April 2017

Marlen
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Speaking up for myself VS Voicing myself - 19 April 2017

Postby Marlen » 20 Apr 2017, 18:35

sunettedimensions set the channel topic: Speaking up for myself VS voicing myself - WE START

[2:06 PM]
sunettedimensions It may sound like the same thing -

[2:06 PM]
but it is in fact different

[2:06 PM]
kims interesting

[2:06 PM]
sunettedimensions When we say "I want to speak up for myself" or "how can I speak up for myself" - MOSTLY what is within you is a ANOTHER PERSON you want to SPEAK AT or TO

[2:07 PM]
what is within you is "this person is DOING THIS / THAT TO ME and THEY are not letting me be THIS/THAT or say THIS/THAT - so THEY are the PROBLEM for not allowing me to be me"

[2:08 PM]
this is the dimension we need to look at here in these words

[2:08 PM]
leilazm Yes cool same with standing and 'standing up against'

[2:08 PM]
joanajesus I see, yes. It is a response/fight back/reaction

[2:08 PM]
sunettedimensions Yes

[2:08 PM]
carolyne going into defense mode

[2:09 PM]
sunettedimensions Spot on @leilazm and @joanajesus

[2:09 PM]
garbrielle yes blame

[2:09 PM]
alyson Yes so the former has a starting point of blame, whereas the latter is more a form of self expression , this is what I see

[2:09 PM]
sunettedimensions Okay awesome - so you see this dimension

[2:09 PM]
mikemcd Need to speak up for self stems from accepted self suppression, inferiority

[2:09 PM]
sunettedimensions @alyson whoohooo got it!

[2:09 PM]
Voicing SELF is a process -

[2:10 PM]
mikemcd Word

[2:10 PM]
joanajesus it is interesting, I associate the expression Speak up for mysel to the the image of being at a protest and shouting...

[2:10 PM]
valentin.rozman I see the difference

[2:10 PM]
marlen also sounds like 'overcoming' an inferiority within oneself in relation to another that wants to now 'antagonize it' in relation to another, instead of first looking back within self

[2:10 PM]
sunettedimensions first IDENTIFYING: why am I wanting to fight THEM?? what reaction in me did they trigger? what programming do I need to face?

[2:10 PM]
sylvie In

[2:10 PM]
kims yes joana with an air of being out of control within oneself

[2:11 PM]
martijn hey @sylvie

[2:11 PM]
joekou a fine line between wanting to prove someone else wrong or win an argument, and not allowing self to go into inferiority/diminishment

[2:11 PM]
sunettedimensions THEN you realise!!!! it has nothing to do with the other person!!!! nor about speaking up!!! it has to do with inferiority, insecurity, emotional manipulation when you don't get you way issues really....

[2:11 PM]
joanajesus absolutely @sunettedimensions so grateful you are opening this point up!

[2:11 PM]
sunettedimensions yes @joekou

[2:11 PM]
martijn I tried it out, I didn't have any power

[2:12 PM]
kims like fighting for your 'own way' in many ways - like in a point of frustration

[2:12 PM]
sylvie Hi @martijn

[2:12 PM]
sunettedimensions So, let's break it down

[2:12 PM]
Let's first look at "I want to speak up for myself"

[2:13 PM]
Whoever is comfortable - share a memory here- as follows, with me as example

[2:13 PM]
carolyne a form of self -dis-empowerment that can be quite hidden, perceived as normal while speaking

[2:14 PM]
sunettedimensions I once felt I needed to "speak up for myself" cause this one person kept making me feel like they are undermining me - asking me to do things, get things done, ordering me around, expecting me to always be on time etc.

[2:14 PM]
in all this time, I kept quiet


[2:14 PM]
boiling inside me

[2:14 PM]
smiling, saying yes, no, thank you as expected

[2:15 PM]
when they were in a mood and taking it out on me, and I knew it and they too - just kept taking it

[2:15 PM]
I wanted to with ALL THIS SUPPRESSION fight back

[2:15 PM]
take ALL OF IT out on them somehow

[2:16 PM]
but then...

[2:16 PM]
juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust in time - (this was when I met Bernard and Esteni!) was showed something interesting

[2:17 PM]
for a moment - reflect on your emotions, take responsibility - understand who you are in it all,WHY are you in the position and relationships you are etc

[2:18 PM]
eventually I realized - it wasn't about them / they, it was me not knowing what I stood for, who I am, what I was creating for me and my life

[2:18 PM]
I was all along wanting to "speak up for myself" instead of CREATING MYSELF in my life

[2:18 PM]
we make issues out of "I can't speak up for myself"

[2:18 PM]
when the real problem is: are we asking - AM I LIVING MYSELF?

[2:19 PM]
DO I KNOW WHO I AM

[2:19 PM]
WHY I AM

[2:19 PM]
What I am creating

[2:19 PM]
what I will accept and allow and what not?

[2:19 PM]
the best I want for me and others in my immediate life?

[2:21 PM]
valentin.rozman This reminds me about the time when I was working in our family company and I did not know who I am and what I want and how to express myself and thus I was ineffective in voicing myself towards my father and my brother for example

[2:21 PM]
sunettedimensions Truth is - we will so easily BLAME others for apparently not 'allowing us to speak'...when fact is: we are not LIVING, VOICING, showing our own stand in our own life / mind - so much so, we can accept and allow another external person who technically cannot have any affect on us at all - have an emotional effecta on us in our minds we have a say over............................

[2:22 PM]
When I met Bernard and Esteni I realized:

[2:22 PM]
I am asking to speak up TO ANOTHER, cause I am actually asking to stand in front of my own fears

[2:23 PM]
...especially the fears we know linked to self judgement, compromising, addictions killing self and the body

[2:23 PM]
facing fears you know will change you, the body and everything for the better

[2:23 PM]
Many ppl know Desteni is their greatest fear

[2:24 PM]
mikemcd Yes

[2:24 PM]
sunettedimensions Okay lol that's us - the difference with SPEAKING UP as emotional fear and VOICING as living up

[2:24 PM]
let's hear from everyone!

[2:24 PM]
leilazm Because they are their own greatest fear lol

[2:25 PM]
mikemcd Yes

[2:25 PM]
joanajesus I totally relate to this @sunettedimensions in the workplace for example, I am aware of moments where in the past I used to blame another for my experience of inferiority and I used to think that it could be because I was a woman. These days I am quicker at bringing the reaction back to myself and ask in real time: what system am I facing through this person? What must I change in my relationship with myself? How can I change my attitude towards the situation to express myself and create the environment I want for myself and others? It is very empowering. From one moment to the next the blame fades away and there is space for self-creation and expansion.


[2:26 PM]
alyson Cool Joanajesus

[2:26 PM]
joanajesus I am still working on it @alyson !

[2:27 PM]
mikemcd I've been addicted to fighting...like relishing in the competion of it...and I've faced myself through interactions with family...Brothers In particular...where for instance I wasn't realizing how I was perpetuating a sort of arguing for my limitation...and I was mostly doing it in a passive aggressive way

[2:27 PM]
marlen I've seen how many gifts if you will can actually come out from 'facing such fears' though, so it seems simpler to blame and see another person as 'the problem' instead of looking at ourselves as the source of the experience, yet we will eventually prove to ourselves that it is 'within us' as the patters repeat 'wherever we go', so that's where any point of fear of facing 'the truth' about ourselves is really a limitation to rather learn to open up such experiences within and work through them/process them, so self-empowerment like joana shared

[2:27 PM]
garbrielle yes can def relate Joana

[2:28 PM]
mikemcd Like the battle of winning at the expense of a loss

[2:28 PM]
Playing out inferiority superiority see saw

[2:28 PM]
tormod if i speak out of emotions/voice fears - i bring it back to myself, like saying "i fear that..." or similar. if i speak up for myself i speak from self honesty and physicality, very much like a intent... like i would like to see this & that... interesting. i speak very much out of intent, yes..

[2:29 PM]
mikemcd Took me a while to get to the Core of how I always had an urge to feed it...like this win/loss mentality

[2:29 PM]
dan I can certainly relate to this. My housemate has a...stronger personality than I in ways, and I react to this by not always expressing my perspective or opinions, and there have been a few times where this leads into a reaction and I make things personal. Whereas if I have my insecurities worked out, and am not participating in any backchat directed inward, then I would allow myself to be open, speaking myself more calmly/confidently

[2:29 PM]
kims I have seen and walked the difference from voicing myself versus speaking up for myself, because when I am not emotional and blaming I have shown myself that it is possible for me to have what I need for me, and the more I do it the more I become more comfortable with my own voice, based on what is supportive for me. I have also dropped the guilt of thinking that I have to 'be something for someone else' so really you could say I have FOUND my voice

[2:29 PM]
marlen a perfect example of this at a 'world-system' level is also protesting, speaking up, creating riots, getting 'the authority's attention!' but... ultimately, what would be most supportive is if each one of the people participating in this 'speaking up' against a problem could look back within self how we are all co-creating the problems 'out there' by our daily participation, so, it takes self-honesty for sure.

[2:29 PM]
tormod i speak for my self I speak much to improve the communication in general

[2:30 PM]
alyson In my previous job, I didn't always agree with the way the Directors chose to do things and I would write to them all individually explaining my perspective, but it irritated them and they would not listen or change, so I left and am now my own Director, and I now live my own principles, but I am aware I could have the same happen to me, if someone does not like how I do things, lol

[2:30 PM]
joekou great example marlen

[2:31 PM]
valentin.rozman Yes @marlen protests are a very nice representation of speaking up that are not the best way of creating a solution

[2:31 PM]
tormod i speak up alot to try to clear the air... a sort of self validation

[2:32 PM]
marlen @dan I can relate to that as well in past relationships where I very much existed in the 'fear of speaking up' within the perception that 'I have to let the other person sort it out' and in this diminish also what was very much here to be spoken of and about, which I did manage to change in the last relationship, but in previous ones, did lead to a point of compromise, became 'inferior' to my potential of saying, speaking things as they are. Lol well in the last one also led to an end to it, which is what the speaking about the situation came to, which is cool as well.


[2:32 PM]
mikemcd I get to get the Dog outside. Cheers

[2:32 PM]
tormod i try not to speak at all if i am in emotions

[2:32 PM]
mikemcd Got

[2:32 PM]
sunettedimensions I would look at things this way

[2:32 PM]
tormod or to address that specifically if so... arranged

[2:32 PM]
sunettedimensions How about we test this?

[2:33 PM]
joanajesus Indeed @marlen the same patterns "follow" us wherever we go because it is within us lol. I had very similar situations with my parents for example, in terms of wanting to speak up in the family environment; over the years our relationship has also improved and curently we can have really nice conversations where we all enjoy instead of being defensive or wanting to make a point and no one wins with it

[2:33 PM]
yoganb ooooo a test!

[2:33 PM]
tormod cool @sunettedimensions

[2:33 PM]
sunettedimensions Whenever you see your mind going into "i need to speak up for myself" - see it as a red flag for


[2:33 PM]
martijn yes

[2:33 PM]
sunettedimensions "I am somewhere somehow towards someone or even myself not LIVING my VOICE my WORD my POTENTIAL"

[2:34 PM]
marlen and it comes like with an anxiety/fear/nervousness too, almost a helplessness experience as well

[2:34 PM]
sunettedimensions this moment has got nothing to do with this one person

[2:34 PM]
it has to do with much more in my everyday life

[2:34 PM]
where am I seeing I am not deciding to live words, but instead give into habits and addictions?

[2:35 PM]
mikemcd Yes

[2:35 PM]
dan really cool cross reference point

[2:35 PM]
valentin.rozman And I am now creating a new relationships with friends where we have started to collaborate also business wise so I had to voice myself and request to define how we will work together in order for us all to be satisfied in terms of being payed for the jobs done

[2:35 PM]
mikemcd Realize and live our dignity

[2:35 PM]
The potential made manifest

[2:36 PM]
tormod there is alarms allready going of when i don't live words...

[2:36 PM]
mikemcd Breath by breath as our discipline In structure and creativity

[2:36 PM]
Word regard

[2:36 PM]
tormod wich is how it must be to improve

[2:36 PM]
mikemcd For and as our world

[2:37 PM]
As our living gift

[2:37 PM]
Giving

[2:37 PM]
garbrielle yes def true, when i am dishonest not standing within myself it has quite effect on everything i do, trust is lost, when i do stand i am more stable cause i have lived this

[2:37 PM]
mikemcd #SelfForgiveness

[2:37 PM]
dan this is why a principled stand is so important, because it's standing by principle that is our decision that will constantly be under 'attack' by those who will want us to support the system/dishonest in one way or another


[2:38 PM]
kims anytime I get the 'feeling' that I have to speak up for myself, is ask myself how am I not supporting myself to do what is best, because if there is a frustration then I am not doing what is best for me in many ways, and then within this the support is not equal


[2:39 PM]
tormod i am having one right now on ... wanting to be funny... write something smart to charm. but a alarm went of... and i restricted myself. i could allow myself to try to be funny, though what is me within it ? who am i within it ? what is the (further) porpose ?

[2:39 PM]
garbrielle cool Kims

[2:40 PM]
sylvie So better speaking up for what's best for all/both

[2:40 PM]
joanajesus @alyson I am reading a book that has some interesting perspectives about sharing criticisms and communicating with empathy in an official environment, like at work with Directors, colleagues or with suppliers; have you heard of Dale Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people?

[2:40 PM]
yoganb The separation there is wanting to Charm Tormod. Because you separate yourself from the actual physical expression of you moving yourself to express something.

[2:41 PM]
tormod cool spoting mr @yogan... yes the word peaks. probably related to the point i was showed by KimA on being admired / having status

[2:42 PM]
yoganb So Charming, a snake charmer. Loveable, Liked, Popular, famous. -comes to mind

[2:42 PM]
tormod indeed

[2:42 PM]
valentin.rozman Yes @joanajesus many great books by Carnegie are available and I recommend them as well

[2:43 PM]
yoganb Instead of just Tormod being Tormod. Self being Self.

[2:43 PM]
mikemcd Leniency is where I have historically decided to not live words

[2:43 PM]
Creating back doors

[2:43 PM]
Bail out scenarios

[2:43 PM]
Postponement

[2:43 PM]
Take it easy

[2:43 PM]
tormod lol can you elaborate @yoganb

[2:44 PM]
mikemcd Wait

[2:44 PM]
yoganb no, haha.

[2:44 PM]
mikemcd Cause a build up

[2:44 PM]
tormod just be me without separation gott'cha lol

[2:45 PM]
marlen Hey guys, Sunette’s internet dropped, she won’t be able to connect back on, but! She suggests certain points to look at, which is: throughout this week, have a look at where in your day to day life you are not speaking up within ourselves, meaning where are we not changing, where are we allowing 'the same old' to repeat within us and so keep an eye on this for this week.

Also suggests to consider how others are a representation of our own lives, where whatever anyone else 'comes up to us with' we can also see where are we not standing, how we are reacting to it, who are we in relation to what another one says


[2:45 PM]
tormod funny charms here

[2:45 PM]
garbrielle cool Marlen

[2:45 PM]
marlen an example is
if you came across another person who's rally arrogant towards you and saying 'you're having a bad day' you would not take it personal but instead, look back at oneself. So it's about standing and understanding

[2:46 PM]
really*

[2:46 PM]
tormod back2batman

[2:46 PM]
joanajesus OK

[2:46 PM]
literally, be the change

[2:46 PM]
create your change

[2:46 PM]
kims we are all still learning to be 'real' without separation - that is what this process is all about essentially, so not to be hard on ourselves its a process for a reason lol


[2:47 PM]
marlen lol @tormod yes back to self to rather see hmm who am I in this moment, what have I been allowing as an experience within me to define my stance, my experience and how I am in fact relating to this other person.

[2:47 PM]
tormod right on dear @kims

[2:47 PM]
kims breath by breath tormod :wink:

[2:47 PM]
tormod yes very basic desteni @marlen cool

[2:48 PM]
marlen yep @kims what I've seen is part of this 'hardness' on ourselves is also when we immediately boomerang the opportunity to look within self 'back at the other person' instead of taking that opening to investigate within self, what triggered within me, have I looked at that experience in me, have I become this at such level that it's become the 'normal' experience day to day?

[2:48 PM]
tormod cool @kims

[2:49 PM]
alyson Thanks for the suggestion @joanajesus , I am not familiar with Dale Carnegie, I am aware of the Carnegie clan in Scotland, lol, not sure if he is a descendent, but I have heard of a book ' how to win friends and influence people" , perhaps the title itself is off putting for me the win/ loose polarity I prefer not to participate with, lol


[2:49 PM]
marlen it is also changing the equation from 'disempowerment' within which this whole 'I need to speak up' pattern comes with to self-empowerment when we get to understand and so stand up from the inferiority, the belief that there's no way to sort something out, when we can in fact change the relationship to others only when we first deal with it within ourselves

[2:50 PM]
adam yes that 'I am wanting' next speaking up for, that does not support

[2:51 PM]
joanajesus @alyson indeed, I was reluctant to read it but I am surprised - little polarity in the book and the message is to actually drop that polarity and be open to understand another's view. The title does not make justice to the content.

[2:51 PM]
marlen yep instead it can be come a 'speaking up' to ourselves @adam, to get frank and honest about our experience while also giving it direction, sorting it out within first

[2:51 PM]
adam I am wanting = I am choosing not to have/be

[2:52 PM]
alyson Ok, will take you up on that thanks for the clarification Jo, I often find gems in unexpected places!

[2:52 PM]
marlen so, the suggestion is to look at it this pattern throughout this week and come back with further feedback next one

[2:52 PM]
garbrielle kewl

[2:53 PM]
marlen let's leave it up to here unless there are any last points on it and we can cross-reference next week

[2:53 PM]
sylvie Cool

[2:53 PM]
adam ok

[2:53 PM]
marlen cool then, see you guys!

[2:53 PM]
@alyson have a cool breathday too

[2:53 PM]
garbrielle thanks Marlen, bye all enjoy!

[2:53 PM]
alyson Thanks everyone, bye for now!

[2:54 PM]
carlton bye all

[2:54 PM]
adam bye

[2:54 PM]
dan bye everyone, thanks for sharing

[2:54 PM]
martijn bye

[2:54 PM]
yoganb Sayonara!!!

[2:54 PM]
valentin.rozman Thanks all and bye :slightly_smiling_face:

[2:54 PM]
pvoversc Bye all!

[2:54 PM]
kurtschnidrig bye

[2:55 PM]
sylvie Bye

[2:55 PM]
alyson Thanks Marlen, I am half a century now, lol!

[2:55 PM]
marlen haha! awesome, well lived

[2:55 PM]
kims bye all

[2:55 PM]
marlen bye guys!

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