What about Zoo's?

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Ann
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What about Zoo's?

Post by Ann »

The question:
I would like some perspective on this.
My brother asked me if I would come to the zoo with them . I thought maybe I can film it, see how the animals are treated. But then I thought: when I go to the zoo, I have to pay and thus sponsor them. Because I do not like the locking up of animals for entertainment purpose.

What do you guys think?

Answers

1.Like us, the animals need money to live -- thus, the zoo needs money.
We will only be able to deal with the zoo issue after we deal with basic human rights -- at this stage very little can be done about it besides raising awareness and exposing cases of deliberate abuse.
So, for now I would say go to the zoo, enjoy it, know that you are supporting the animals with your visit - and if you see any abuse report it/document it/expose it.

2.Its like not drinking coca-cola to not support that corporation, or not eating meat as 'activism' it is not activism because it doesn't affect change, it doesn't make a difference if you stop eating meat or drinking coca cola -- so you can eat and drink that, and stand up within principle at the same time - to produce real change.

3.If you go to make a video to expose this, then the money is an investment in your video. And you use what is here to raise awareness.

Have a look at your starting point: "Because I don't like". If you accept and allow yourself to follow your liking/disliking, then you cannot deny some else the right to keep animals in a zoo if 'they like that'.

(note: dislike or likes are not necessarily a problem, one can have preferences as long as it is not abusive)

4.My perspective is that until we have clear policy that is implemented and adhered by in terms of animal rights, things like zoos will continue to exist. To keep money away from them in order to ‘hurt’ the zoo in the meantime, will actually also hurt the animals as the zookeepers will struggle to care for them properly.

5.it's going to be 'Catch22' until we change the fundamentals of the system

6.I see that for zoo's there would have to come an agreement first from the system/people to not allow animals for entertainment locked up in cages. And that then the necessary actions will be taken.

I would never go to circusses however, who have those wild animals performing tricks because thats plain abuse.
And I wouldn't drink coca cola either btw:P, too unhealthy for the body.

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coco
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Re: What about Zoo's?

Post by coco »

Hello. I say do not support zoos at all in the first place, if you want to change the system, do not participate in it at all. It's like with jail. I do not agree with locking people up, so would never stand for jury-duty. You have to make a stand. You caould argue that the system shcnges slowly, and it's like drugs, it takes time, and you have to cut down and stop. It's like ocd, and any addiction for that matter. It takes time to walk out of it.
However, with this I would go with the complete fundamental attitude. If they can't feed them, they'll have to let them free, or admit they are cruel.
It's like with voting. If nobody votes for a government, and they take over anyway, even though people do not participate, they'll have to admit they just want the power. This is how revolution happens. Stand up for what is true, in any circumstance......

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Carrie
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Re: What about Zoo's?

Post by Carrie »

coco wrote:Hello. I say do not support zoos at all in the first place, if you want to change the system, do not participate in it at all.
If we do not participate in the system, how will we change it? If we were to abandon the system and go live off the grid somewhere, how would that change anything? And what about those that have no choice but to participate in the system because they physically cannot go off the grid or leave where they are? Further, those of us that see there is a problem and are working on implementing solutions, how will that benefit anyone if we refuse to participate?

This world is a really messed up place - the consequence of not participating and not standing up has been accumulated for a long time. It's going to take some time to fix it. In the meantime, I see that we are responsible for making sure that we can support others if we can self-honestly do so. This includes the animals in the zoo that would starve to death or be victims of abuse if their owners/handlers are stressed because they do not have the resources to support the animals. Obviously, when we implement a basic living income, humans will no longer turn to animals as a source of income - until then, we have to do whatever we can to keep animals from harm.
If they can't feed them, they'll have to let them free, or admit they are cruel.
Here suggest to take another look at this statement and apply some common sense. Is this an actual solution with which we can live with the consequences? Is this practical and real? Are we really going to see people 'admit they are cruel'? What is going to happen to a bunch of zoo animals if they are suddenly 'set free'?

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coco
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Re: What about Zoo's?

Post by coco »

yeah maybe you are right. Change happens slowly. I mean after I wrote it I thought about it, and figured, well, people eat meat aswell to survive. There is no need to feel bad about it. And if you're going to the zoo, why feel bad about it. As long as we're standing true in the actions we take, there is no need to feel bad about going to the zoo. Go to the zoo and love the animals, and in the meantime, we are evolving......

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Ann
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Re: What about Zoo's?

Post by Ann »

I've been to the zoo now, and to be honest I find it quite sad. Some of the animals their cages I find too small, certainly compared to the space they would have in the wild. And all those people and noise around them. So yes when the system changes we will have to take everything in consideration again and I don't think zoo's will keep existing. Since many of the animals there are not really endangered and there is nothing left to study about them since we already did that and even can do so in the wild. So it would be better for them to be in their natural environment.
I don't know if they are all happy there. A couple of them looked stressed, pasing back and forth next to the glass. It was some kind of pig with a long snout. It was really dark so I think it were night animals.

The lions there territory was also really small I find. This is an example:

Image

Some say the animals are safer there than in the wild, but we would also be safer stuck in a prisonbox, does that mean we want it?

The Panda interviews on Eqafe are great perspective on what happens when the animals are taken captive.
Because to be there in the first place the animals (the first ones at least) have to be taken from their natural homes...

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Garbrielle
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Re: What about Zoo's?

Post by Garbrielle »

This is a cool discussion and also I agree with Ann, the Panda interviews where a great 'behind the scenes' perspective direct from the pandas themselves on this very topic, how they experience themselves in the wild compared to being in a zoo like enclosure.

For zoos, I say that it is based on the capitalistic system just like any other business, it's not about the care for the animal or their consideration even remotely having a say on how they would like to be or live as would be compared with in the wild because obviously it's not about the animal, it's about the money, how much can be made, and within this way of looking at life, profit driven, life will continually be used and abused for self interest greed.

So the only way to find solutions to such a dismal way of life for example with these animals enclosed and caged up as how Ann explained in her last post with it being too small and the animals seeming unhappy, is to create the avenues of change which will eventually change the system. Speak out on the abuses this system create, walk the process being walked here to change ourselves to be human beings that support life and value life equal and one among all that exist on the planet, and not accept anything less from oneself until life is restored and brought back to it's natural order, where all life is considered and given the life that is best for them.

This is the only way I see a solution to this world and the ills that are being allowed within it, the zoo, a small microcosm of the whole, the countries of people starving is another example, I mean it's all disturbing, but we as humanity are the cause of this through our accepted ways of living in greed and ignorance, and thus we are the solution through change within and as ourselves to eventually be the change in the system that is needed to eventually change, always living principled in considering all equal and doing what is best for all until it is fact.

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Ann
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Re: What about Zoo's?

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