Water versus soap

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AnthonyF
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Water versus soap

Post by AnthonyF »

The exact details of this are personal to me, but basically it's about using soap or water in the shower/to wash myself.

I've used both, but I just really struggle to use water exclusively to clean myself. I prefer to use soap to clean myself. I've written about it a million times and it's like whatever I do/write, I can't get over the fact that I'm seemingly not clean after using water only.

I can go back to soap, but then I'm sure that I'm suppressing myself by avoiding the use of water exclusively.

They are the basics of my struggles. I mean, do all Desteni participants use water only to wash themselves, and if not, then why use soap to wash yourself? Soap = chemicals and money. I'm always overthinking everything, and this is a major one that I overthink.

Any perspectives/feedback is appreciated, thanks.

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sylvia
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by sylvia »

I've used water only and now I'm using an organic 'soap' that doesn't have chemicals in it and will thus not pollute/affect the water supply in such a way as chemical soap does. I started using organic 'soap' and organic 'deodorant' when starting a job in the system where I work with people and where I represent the product that I sell. That for me was the reason to start using 'soap' again and fit into the system smoothly. Since I've noticed that when I smell neutral, like human and not smelling/stinking, people are not used to it and fit you in either the 'you stink' box or 'the you smell like human' box. If I would have still lived up in the mountains not being in contact with clients the way I do now, I would have still used water only to clean my body.

The way you describe your dilemma Anton, it sounds like you are stuck within polarity. What you can do is make a list of all the reasons why you should use water only, soap only or a combination of the two. If you order them in what you experience as positive or negative, you get a nice overview of your motivations. So when you then in self-honesty scan through your reasons that's written on paper/computer it is less difficult to see what you should do. If you keep the problem within your mind as being on your mind, it's like a decision that hasn't been taken and still floating around with a no possible outcome which can still go either way.This might 'feel' like you do not control the point and that is because you do not direct the point as of yet. Does that make sense?

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Anna
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Anna »

Cool Sylvia.

I would also look at whether the idea of using water only is practical or commonsensical or whether it's a point of morality. And like Sylvia said, is the idea of using soap an idea or a point of common sense?

What I've found happens when we follow something that someone else has said we should do (or that we think they've said) but where we haven't really made an informed decision for ourselves, that's where the struggle and polarity comes in - you'll basically have conflicting beliefs where you're trying to follow what someone else said, but where you have an underlying belief within you overriding it.

I also use 'organic'-type no perfume, no additives products and in the shower I use a particular soap that has the same PH as the skin of my body. (I generally avoid products with ftalater (plastic softner), perfume and parabenes (perservatives) which to my understanding are toxic and non-essential ingredients.) Something interesting that I read recently is that while organic foods are often almost 100 % organic, in skincare products the companies are allowed to label them as organic even if only a few ingredients are organic in fact. So I'm not that concerned about the 'organic' factor, because unfortunately much of what we ingest and put on our bodies is manufactured with the starting-point of profit, which means that caring for the body and the environment is not a priority for these companies. Even our water is not as clean as it could be. So in the end we're looking at a global problem, where it is currently impossible to completely 'purify' oneself - that actually requires a global solution such as a Living Income Guaranteed model proposes.

So my suggestion is to do research for yourself so that you can make an informed decision based on common sense.

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AnthonyF
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by AnthonyF »

sylvia wrote:I've used water only and now I'm using an organic 'soap' that doesn't have chemicals in it and will thus not pollute/affect the water supply in such a way as chemical soap does. I started using organic 'soap' and organic 'deodorant' when starting a job in the system where I work with people and where I represent the product that I sell. That for me was the reason to start using 'soap' again and fit into the system smoothly. Since I've noticed that when I smell neutral, like human and not smelling/stinking, people are not used to it and fit you in either the 'you stink' box or 'the you smell like human' box. If I would have still lived up in the mountains not being in contact with clients the way I do now, I would have still used water only to clean my body.

The way you describe your dilemma Anton, it sounds like you are stuck within polarity. What you can do is make a list of all the reasons why you should use water only, soap only or a combination of the two. If you order them in what you experience as positive or negative, you get a nice overview of your motivations. So when you then in self-honesty scan through your reasons that's written on paper/computer it is less difficult to see what you should do. If you keep the problem within your mind as being on your mind, it's like a decision that hasn't been taken and still floating around with a no possible outcome which can still go either way.This might 'feel' like you do not control the point and that is because you do not direct the point as of yet. Does that make sense?
Awesome. Thank you, Sylvia. Yes, that makes sense, I understand.

It has DEFINITELY felt like that to me, it's just this thing that continues to float around with absolutely NO possible outcome in sight. That is a great idea, to list all of the reasons why I should use soap as opposed to water/combination of the two. And that way I can bring everything right to the forefront, cool.
Anna wrote:Cool Sylvia.

I would also look at whether the idea of using water only is practical or commonsensical or whether it's a point of morality. And like Sylvia said, is the idea of using soap an idea or a point of common sense?

What I've found happens when we follow something that someone else has said we should do (or that we think they've said) but where we haven't really made an informed decision for ourselves, that's where the struggle and polarity comes in - you'll basically have conflicting beliefs where you're trying to follow what someone else said, but where you have an underlying belief within you overriding it.

I also use 'organic'-type no perfume, no additives products and in the shower I use a particular soap that has the same PH as the skin of my body. (I generally avoid products with ftalater (plastic softner), perfume and parabenes (perservatives) which to my understanding are toxic and non-essential ingredients.) Something interesting that I read recently is that while organic foods are often almost 100 % organic, in skincare products the companies are allowed to label them as organic even if only a few ingredients are organic in fact. So I'm not that concerned about the 'organic' factor, because unfortunately much of what we ingest and put on our bodies is manufactured with the starting-point of profit, which means that caring for the body and the environment is not a priority for these companies. Even our water is not as clean as it could be. So in the end we're looking at a global problem, where it is currently impossible to completely 'purify' oneself - that actually requires a global solution such as a Living Income Guaranteed model proposes.

So my suggestion is to do research for yourself so that you can make an informed decision based on common sense.
Great, thank you, Anna. Very helpful.

No doubt that I've allowed myself to be stuck right inside of a polarity. It has definitely seemed that way to me, where I've been trying to do exactly what others have said, but I have an underlying belief within me overriding it - as you said. Cool.

And I've also noticed that just as of yesterday - where companies can call their skincare products organic/natural and can still contain some 'dangerous' and 'risky' chemicals. Or yeah, what you said, even if only just a few ingredients are in fact organic.

I bought some moisturiser yesterday (I've been avoiding the use of moisturiser because I thought my skin would get better by itself and without the need of moisturiser - I get very dry skin on my face) and the moisturiser was a brand named Aveeno. I've been told by people that this product is super natural and organic and without researching if this was the case, I accepted what I was told. I ended up buying this Aveeno moisturiser and I then read some Amazon reviews of the product and saw that this Aveeno product contains Petrolatum - which is apparently 'banned or restricted for use in cosmetics in the EU'. And in the same review I also read that 'The Environment Canada Domestic Substances List classifies Petrolatum as a high human health priority and as expected to be toxic or harmful'. (Source: http://www.amazon.com/review/R1LFHWJK37 ... HWJK37TFV1).

So yeah, important to do some research about products/ingredients of skincare products before touting them as organic/natural.

Thank you.

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sylvia
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by sylvia »

Cool Anton, there are also ways to make your own simple organic body products. Internet is packed with recipes that are made mostly with ingredients that are not over prized and are quickly to make at home.

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Anna
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Anna »

sylvia wrote:Cool Anton, there are also ways to make your own simple organic body products. Internet is packed with recipes that are made mostly with ingredients that are not over prized and are quickly to make at home.
lol - I've been dabbling with this for some time. For quite a while I've been using coconut oil + baking soda + peppermint essential oil as a toothpaste, but its been clogging up my drain so I'd had to stop using it. It was great for my teeth though. I also tried making lotion with coconut oil but so far no success. If I were to do it again I'd probably buy one of those kits where there's a bit more to it in terms of chemical processes but where it comes out more like traditional lotion.

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sylvia
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by sylvia »

Cool Anna to bring in some practical points about home made products. With the toothpaste the question is,do you want it to look/behave like a toothpaste as the stores sell? One can use even more simple ingredients to make sure your teeth are clean, from salt to baking soda or even deluded H2O2. So also here the starting point is quite important, making homemade body products that are great for our body, but not for the drain (lol) is not taking all dimensions into consideration. Thus as also this is a process to walk, it is to discover what's the best possible product/outcome for our own particular situation at that time. Just as we investigate for instance foods it's no different from investigating body products.

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Anna
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Anna »

sylvia wrote:Cool Anna to bring in some practical points about home made products. With the toothpaste the question is,do you want it to look/behave like a toothpaste as the stores sell? One can use even more simple ingredients to make sure your teeth are clean, from salt to baking soda or even deluded H2O2. So also here the starting point is quite important, making homemade body products that are great for our body, but not for the drain (lol) is not taking all dimensions into consideration. Thus as also this is a process to walk, it is to discover what's the best possible product/outcome for our own particular situation at that time. Just as we investigate for instance foods it's no different from investigating body products.
The foaming of toothpaste is just an added consumer 'bonus' lol - it's not necessary at all. I've tried the salt which I didn't find very practical and I'm not sure about the H202... Apparently many people believe that it's the foaming (same as in shampoo) that makes their teeth clean when in fact its not. I considered just now that obviously I don't have to spit the toothpaste down the drain. I could simply spit it into a piece of tissue and then throw it out.

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sylvia
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by sylvia »

Lol yes Anna I was going to say that: don't spit it out in the sink! And imagined a big jar to spit in, though I prefer your option of the tissue. We can see that we're so used to things being convenient and being the way they are or always were. Just like you mentioned about the foaming, we need to strip some nice fairy tales and beliefs, before we come to an solution that works.

The diluted H2O2 I used to clean my toothbrush and when I brushed with it my teeth became whiter, so just rinsing with it or brushing can be used as teeth whitening. (As with all ingredients it's really not cool when one is using it without investigating what and how it is used for, so with H2O2 one has to know what one is doing. When not diluted properly it's dangerous/powerful stuff to work with.)

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Alexandre
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Alexandre »

Hi, I have also experienced similar resistances concerning the use of hygiene products, and have been considering in the last months, no-chemical alternatives for habitual hygiene products, and there are organic alternatives that one can make at home. I am using olive soap and will soon mix it with some distilled peppermint oil that I am planning to get. I am also testing H2O2 to clean my mouth. Baking soda is also available for the hair together with organic cider vinegar; for a sunscreen its way better consider using some organic oil such as olive oil or coconut oil if available, even for an occasional massage of the feet and harms.

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