Water versus soap

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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Lucysprocess »

With the process of 'going green' within my family life and living, I'm going to suggest to my mum and dad and brothers that we use natural products to 'clean' ourselves with. Lush.com offers natural products for hair washing, teeth cleaning, etc, and none are tested on animals. Also with makeup I'm switching to Lush products. Even though in general their products are a little more expensive, they are well worth it as they don't pollute nearly as much as 'standard' products. https://www.lush.co.uk/ Right now I have the 'tooth tabs' which I'll be starting to use permanently, and they work well. In the past I have bought a lot of my hair cleaning products from Lush, as well as moisturiser, since my skin can get dry. I think the aim though should be for us to use far less cleaning products, and feel clean within ourselves. I invested in a can of dry shampoo so that I don't need to take so many showers in general. I've always wanted to live like a hippy lol

Matti Freeman
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Matti Freeman »

before you stop using soap - investigate the point of soap / body products and see if there are any positive or negative judgments / associations / definitions you have linked to them, and clear those points with SF so you do not have ANY positive or negative BIAS toward using / not using soap

if you experience anything as 'BAD', or 'WRONG', or 'NEGATIVE" in any way --- that indicates your starting point has not been cleaned / cleared yet

Many do not notice this point and will for instance stop using soap or something, and will feel 'more self honest' and 'more one and equal' by doing so -- but then when faced with a point where maybe it is more practical to use soap in a situation -- you'll FEEL conflicted inside yourself because you don't WANT to use the soap because it makes you feel dishonest or something ---- such experiences indicate you've created a personality around not using soap / idea that it is 'good' to not use soap and 'bad' to use soap'. That indicates starting point is of separation through judgment / ideas, and SF is required.

we are not at a stage as a group where we are, as a group not using soap, or not using shampoo or whatever to make a statement -- it is something you have to decide for yourself what is practical and what works for you.

Yes buying the products supports the industry -- but buying ANY product supports the ENTIRE capitalist system / industry.

At this stage not buying soap / using soap is not going to make ANY difference to the environment or the money system.

The most important point is your personal self honest in relation to the product -- make sure your individual relationship to the product is clear and then look at the point again

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Re: Water versus soap


Interesting discussion here. I have had the same consideration myself, and came to conclusion that nothing is better for cleaning (inside and/or outside) of my body than water! Take a look, if you would live near a small pond, and take that water for cooking and/or drinking, would you like to dump into same pond just dirty water or perhaps soapy dirty water? Dirt is eventually going to settle down and/or stay on the surface, but soap is mixed with the water, and takes time I am using skin moisturizer too, but didn't hear before that petrolatum is dangerous. Years before I have used occasionally glycerin, worked perfectly! Tee Tree Oil is cleanser too, for everything .Try teeth with powdered chalk and/or cigarette ash. And sand instead of soap, for the body. Cleans dishes perfectly, too(without any water in addition to it)!
For using of my skin moisturizer I am definitely going to do SF, because it is sign, that my body is not distributing
enough of moisture to the surface of my exterior . Some little patern on work in my mind, distracting my body's functionality!

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kim amourette
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by kim amourette »

what i have recently learned in relation to skin/hair products and also the food that i eat, is that there is no good or bad when it comes to those products -- contrary to what i used to believe. Advertisement and other media but also systems like family, religion and culture tend to create opinions in relation to foods and other healthcare products that pretend to be applicable for each human being - like a one shoe fits all kind of thing. Whereas, in reality, each human physical body is unique and has its unique properties and requirements with regards to the type of support that it needs.

So, from my perspective and experience, we must start getting to know the ins and outs of our own physical body so that we can start tailoring our own system of self-support, using the resources that are here. in terms of using organic products, from my experience the reason why i would go for those is because they contain less harsh chemicals than many the commercial mainstream products, but i wouldn't say that that rules out all of the commercialized products.

for instance, i have always lived with very dry skin and i thought i have to just live with it - and when i started walking my process i was of the mindset that i had to correct it with self-forgiveness -- not realizing that it is a generational pattern that is integrated in my DNA that i cannot just correct through self-forgiveness, at least not in one moment --- also what i never saw was that it is also very much related to weather patterns in the environment that i live in. now i found a few products that support my body with giving moisture, for instance a scrub and oil for my face, which have corrected the point quite well.

So, i would suggest to be careful with creating opinions about things being either 'good' or 'bad' - get to know your body and give it the support that it needs.

Cheers, Kim

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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Michelle »

Really cool support here!

I found out about 2 years ago that Lush body products contains some harsh ingredients like lauryl sulfate and I went into disappointment cause I created an excitement towards using these products, (which smell great and look so pretty) and yet the company hides these little secrets so people can still buy their products and make money. I agree though they are less polluting to the earth than other commercial body products.

Then to add, I would say, if one really wants to use pure/natural cosmetics and soaps one has to do research cause we can't even trust these companies that claim they provide "all-natural" products.

I myself, like to use baking soda to clean the dirty areas of the body. However, since I moved to another country I'm having a difficult time finding baking soda in large quantities so I am for right now using a natural castille soap made with oils.

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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Gian »

as a young teenager I refused to use soap, I could not understand why I need it, why do I need soap?? who invented it and said that this is what you need, more specifically: there are SO many soaps out there, which one is the correct one and why are there so many different ones, isn't is common sense that if soap is necessary then there would only be ONE and that one would work for all the same?

so I went through my teenage years not using soap - I how ever did use deodorant to cover the smell, BUT I only sprayed the deodorant over my cloths, NEVER on my skin.

so once I came into contact with Desteni and the tools/message Desteni provides and ALL the material to read about and develop common sense and self honesty, I started looking at soap a different way.

First of all I looked at soap as "just" fitting in with society and to not compromise myself within the system (as mentioned by (Sylvia). and I used soap about three times a day now, BUT it just did not feel right on my skin, I now had dried out skin and it felt like my skin would actually get weaker in terms of the skins resistance ability to outside forces.

so now I started looking into organic soaps and what they can do for me, and I actually found a soap that is very nice and effective as it does not leave that dry skin behind.

BUT that did not solve the using of soap for me within myself, I was still having this resistance to using it, like using ANY soap now became the issue and the question at hand. why do I need soap.

this question came from the IDEA within myself that I am a natural being, that If I had to live in a forest and in my natural state then soap isn't a necessary things for me, so why must I use soap? why not just water applied with a lot of rubbing/friction.

I then came to the common sense answer - which was the obvious being stated - I am not living in a forest first of all, secondly I am not living naked and hunting for my own food, that whole wide from whic I was coming from. regard to using soap and only water (as nature intended lol)

everyday I wear cloths, more then one layer of cloths at some point in time, and I barely see the sun, I am sitting in room of all sizes with all kinds of temperatures, with all kinds of people from all kinds of back grounds around me, where all these people are also wearing cloths.

and as we know we sweat and fart underneath the cloths we wear, and the other point, when we piss or shit we don't necessarily get all the pee or shit off and some goes back with us in our cloths - Unlike in the past where the sun would count as a disinfectant when it is shining on our skin and on all parts - this is NOT happening, all the smells and all the different kinds of fluids and solids goes back into our cloths and they remain there to stay alive with the body temperature and not fresh air gushing over it or anything like that - so we are obviously not living naturally and it will probably never be possible.

so by applying common sense - I have to use something man made (unnatural) to handle the man made systems that is in place in consideration of the consequences (positive or negative) of these designs and systems and accordingly support and assist myself - which mean I need soap that will now help me sterilize my body after a long day of being in all my cloths with all the bodily things stuck inside, that can become problematic if left for to long or missed. because it isn't natural.

and a good old organic soap does the job.

so for me considering where I came from and what is HERE - I had to investigate where I came from in relation to this point and then cross reference each point with what is HERE practically/physically, besides just smelling nice or fitting into social structures.

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kim amourette
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Re: Water versus soap

Post by kim amourette »

really cool practical common sense Gian !
thanks for sharing!

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Re: Water versus soap

Post by YoganBarrientos »

Hey AnthonyF,
I have found it supportive to understand the basic principles of the physical material I am working with. So did you know that soap was once made with whale fat in some places in the world? So what is the principle of soap, why does soap work like soap? Essentially it boils down to this. In order to make a substance that acts or works like soap, you need to get something with a high fat or oil content.This then will absorb smaller fat or oil materials. You can think of dish soap and how thick it is. Soap can thus be made from plants with high fat content and animal fat too (even human fat, but that's black market).

Just as a practical point, if you are stinky or smelly, most humans dislike that. Few would be willing to stay within the smell and smell it without reactions. So chances are you will require to use soap to remove dirt, sweat and the other things you may come into contact with in your day-to-day life. If you wish to reduce soap use, and/or to save money, I'm sure there are ways. For example, use soap sparingly and use a Loofa or similar material to spread the soap efficiently. Hot water certainly has more of a "cleansing" effect due to the heat. I don't see it as practical to stop using soap altogether, unless you find another way to remove the human dirt and grime (dead skin cells).

Another dimension, I see that why perhaps you have this point. We as Desteni saw the point of using Shame-poo and CON-ditioner, so we shave our heads because such things contain substances that harm the earth, or that don't easily decompose. If you wish, and have the money for it I suggest buying products that say that they are 100% biodegradable. They do exist. They may or may not cost more money, and they may or may not be effective. This is a journey, if you choose, you can take. If you find some awesome soap that is cost effective and 100% biodegradable, and we can buy it, let us know.

Lastly, I find it strange that you had this idea about using only hot water and avoid soap, can you share more on why/how you thought this?

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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Antoaneta »

I went through a phase with no using soap or shampoo for the reasons Gian mentioned. And then when applying common sense I decided to find something that is not harsh for my body and was not rested on animals. Like Michelle I found the castille soap with essential oils to work best for my skin. I took the tea tree one as it is antifungal and I had some foot fungus that needed to be taken care of and for shampoo I found a tea tree essential oil one that works good for my hair since it gets oily. Great discussion on looking things from a practical perspective.

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Re: Water versus soap

Post by Terrone28 »

I wash with soap and water, usually when my hands have oil or dirt to remove the smell and of course the oily thing.

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