Learning Ability - 14 February 2018

Marlen
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Learning Ability - 14 February 2018

Postby Marlen » 20 Feb 2018, 20:54

joekou set the channel topic: Open Floor Tonight - Got a topic? A question? Something to share? Lets hear it. Starting at 5 past the hour
[1:07 PM]
kims Can we talk about learning ability ? I have noticed how because I wasn’t ‘pushed’ in school and became dis interested at a young age I consider myself slow to learn. I have realised how this is also a mind job in that I have made an assumption that I am not intelligent enough to reason like others
[1:12 PM]
joekou hey everyone - anybody have a question to ask or something to share?
[1:12 PM]
viktorpersson I like that topic @kims
[1:12 PM]
tormod hey there learning is cool
[1:13 PM]
fred Hi all! I hv a question or topic(actually more a question for Sunette/Portal/Beings): Why do we all know the importance of being "Here" to our existence but our minds/we all always always want to participate in Past/Now and Future? Instead of totally 100% "Here" in Breathe all the time?? Why do we want to/feel more comfortable wandering in Past/Now and Future instead??
[1:14 PM]
tormod "to understand everything - is to forgive everything" - the cuddling owl picture
[1:14 PM]
joekou set the channel topic: Learning Ability
[1:14 PM]
kims Because of how we have programmed ourselves or been programmed as mcs fred
[1:14 PM]
joekou fred - have to look at the entire point of why we have a mind consciousness system. it was deliberately designed so that we stay distracted and not here
[1:15 PM]
fred Oh, ok, thanks Joe!
[1:15 PM]
joekou it is not that the mind 'wants to' - it is that it was designed to and we participate in it through our acceptance
[1:15 PM]
valentin.rozman @kims about that point I remember a Eqafe audio or was it some chat where it was shared how it is not self-responsible to expect from the “system” to push us and make us to learn.
[1:16 PM]
fred Like I need to always, always in every moment, deliberately to force myself, keep focusing in "Here"...
[1:16 PM]
joekou so kim can you share more your perspective on learning
[1:16 PM]
viktorpersson What is it that you want to open up with regards to learning ability @kims?
[1:16 PM]
kims I have noticed how this is a big point for me - where because I don’t have a degree and limited education in the system sense of the word I automatically assume that I am limited
[1:18 PM]
valentin.rozman And yes @kims this is an issue with our public system where we are “forced” to learn things that we do not want to learn and then we build a resistance to learning. And as the result we might fall into a self-pity or resentment mode where we learn only when we are “pushed” and fight learning anything about anything else that we are not “force” to.
[1:18 PM]
joekou fred - for now we are taking on the topic of learning ability - but i suggest for now that you can have a look at the word 'force' and how you are living it - instead of realizing that you are always here - it is just that you tend to allow yourself to wander off in the mind. so it is not about being hard on yourself and forcing - it is about understanding those moments of why/when you rather go into the mind instead of simply remaining here as you always are
[1:18 PM]
kims And within this often I see that I don’t ‘think’ like others in that I don’t tend to do well with logical problems etc - for example a colleague at work will think of an idea/solution of how to overcome something on the computer say / and I will be like wow why didn’t I think of that I must’ve dumb
*must be dumb
Yes valentin
[1:19 PM]
fred @kims I used to hv that, serious self-doubt too Kim, seriously! However, after I walked/forced myself to train myself in sales, keep pushing myself to social/say hello to strangers on the street every, everyday...I totally changed my personality/patterns and realize I now hv much more self-confidence/self-trust in myself - for being capable
[1:20 PM]
joekou ah - an interesting point. i would say first of all comparison is the first red flag
[1:20 PM]
kims Cool fred
[1:20 PM]
valentin.rozman Yes @joekou and that is of course the core point about learning - to always stay here and not allow any thought to distract our attention from the “natural learning”.
[1:20 PM]
kims Yes @joekou
[1:21 PM]
joekou we tend to believe that we need to be exactly equal to everyone else's abilities - and if someone has a particular skill they excel at we then go into an inferior judgment of ourselves and totally in that moment lose sight of not only what makes that person unique, but also what makes ourselves unique
hm - that is not quite what i meant @valentin.rozman but i do see your point
[1:21 PM]
kims I am however determined and willing to teach myself and learn - but I have a belief and a frustration that I didn’t do it sooner as a child
[1:22 PM]
viktorpersson Yes – I would add to that the importance of seeing the process/journey that another has walked to get to where they are – and that a skill is something that is developed and nurtured over a long period of time
[1:22 PM]
kims Yes @viktorpersson this is something I am reminding myself of
[1:22 PM]
viktorpersson When we see someone that is good at an instrument, we do not see the hours of practice put in to get there
[1:23 PM]
tormod that sounds more like a self-image/confidence issue and not really about learning itself rather your image of self when / if / not learning @kims
[1:23 PM]
kims It’s like someone may get the point of something straight away and I tend to have to really think about it
[1:23 PM]
joekou what i found very beneficial is to firstly spend more time getting to know myself - in terms of what methods work well for me when approaching problems and challenges, what methods of learning i use well, and what 'natural' talents i have - and within that also understand which methods i am 'weak' in - not as a self limiting judgment, but more as an understanding of what works well for me and what i will need help or support with.
[1:23 PM]
gotaja hey, catching up
[1:23 PM]
valentin.rozman Also comparison @joekou yes is another point. Comparing ourselves with others who have “more” education and then defining ourselves as something “less”. And then there is a point of wanting a “degree” which is not really something that guarantees a success. Now knowledge can be attained via the web instantly on demand and all that counts is what you actually know and how fast you are able to adapt to changes and learn new things.
[1:23 PM]
gotaja Cesar was quite insistent with the remote controlled helicopter
[1:24 PM]
kims Tormod yes in many ways - but this is specific to learning something new
[1:24 PM]
gotaja so with learning, for me at least, the biggest part was working with the experience of not knowing how to do things yet. If I fell in this point, I quit trying and only through trying and doing did I learn. So for me learning was about facing the state of not having learned the thing yet :stuck_out_tongue:
[1:25 PM]
joekou for myself - there are certain things i do VERY well and other things that i will struggle with - and the more i understood both sides of that the less i found myself comparing or becoming jealous of others or thinking less of myself. instead i focus on my strengths and finding ways to augment or balance my weaknesses
[1:25 PM]
kims I am fully aware of why this is a point with me, but I struggle with the pre programmed idea of being inferior because I had s limited education
[1:25 PM]
tormod when i think of my school (which was hell) and tend to judge my ability to learn something today cause of that, i focus on what is it within me that i learn from ? my ability to "take in" to absorb information, to make a mistake and then learn from it. realizing that my inside is sort like a jellyfish, and that i still can learn lots from my inside being .... like a jellyfish
soft *
[1:26 PM]
viktorpersson Why have you put such a high value on formal education @kims?
[1:26 PM]
joekou lol i also had a limited education. never graduated college or got any form of degree - and in some ways yes this limits certain doors for me in the system but i have also found that what i am able to bring to the table are things nobody can learn in school - and i have always been able to connect with the people i needed to for finding work and moving upward
[1:26 PM]
fred @kims - Learning something new and Have a long lasting memory are different, like walking DIP has nothing to do with good memory but with pure skills - which as @viktorpersson mentioned - it takes times, a lot of time and effort that we/u tend to left out while our mind evaluate a person's capability when they r in front of our eyes
[1:26 PM]
kims For example I have to do a test for work and I am immediately in stress about it thinking I am not going to make it
[1:27 PM]
tormod realizing that I am soft like a jelly fish on my inside make me more easy absorb info/resonance
[1:27 PM]
valentin.rozman @kims it normal that we all have different abilities/speeds to learn certain things. We all have our unique past that shaped us. So best to have in mind all our existential history, current life influences, genetics, end especially how the first years after we were born shaped as and created many limitations.
[1:28 PM]
tormod making a mistake, focus and who I am within learning something
[1:29 PM]
joekou it is dififcult when we do in some ways have to play that game in the system - and to understand that yes many rules of the system are based on things that measure a person using things like tests and education levels - but here the key again is to be in it and not OF it
[1:30 PM]
kims Yes useful reminders
[1:30 PM]
valentin.rozman And @kims what is also to be taken into account when we talk about mental abilities is how influences like food and exposure to toxins limited us. And as explained in the documentaries like the Broken Brain series, we are able to support our physical body significantly by changing what kind of food/nutrients we consume on a daily basis > https://brokenbrain.com
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[1:30 PM]
tormod right.. good point Joe.. can you expend abit on being in or of the system @joekou ?
[1:30 PM]
viktorpersson @kims – did you see my question above?
[1:30 PM]
joekou because we cannot at this point change the system or the way it expects things to be done. for the moment we have to work with it - but if we can find a way to embrace it within ourselves and not make it personal or see ourselves as less because of arbitrary system rules - then no matter where we are we will be able to find a way through. this is something ive seen for myself in my previous jobs - never having a degree or formal education. it was more about myself and how i was seeing myself - what i was holding within myself and thus what i was 'resonating' that made the most difference in my work life
[1:31 PM]
kims @viktorpersson yes exactly - I think because I work with others that went to uni
And they have degrees etc
Sorry guys distracted for a moment there
[1:32 PM]
viktorpersson And why do you place a value on the degree? What does it represent to you?
[1:32 PM]
kims Good question - the ability to learn
[1:32 PM]
joekou there is like an 'unfairness' we we experience ourselves not regarded equally - and having it based on things like education, privilege, etc
kim - i would say that for you the ability to learn became separated - in the sense that you may now see the ability to learn as something you lack, or is a way to 'even out the odds'.
[1:33 PM]
tormod what is the key points to be aware on : in the system and not of the system ? can someone give me some details ?
[1:34 PM]
fred I believe I know how ur feeling at this moment @kims, I seriously do, I self-doubt my decision/judgments/capacity in being a salesperson - in every ways! Each and every day when I wake up and force myself to keep on walk the self-training...until 3 years later, when I first notice I hv improved in skills...I mean man/Kim, I couldn't even put up a smile in front of a stranger 5 yrs ago!
[1:34 PM]
valentin.rozman Yes @joekou so one has to decide if they want some job where “a degree” is required to get that job and where we will have to align ourselves with the requirements of the “system” to acquire that “degree”. But if we just need knowledge like if we work as a freelancer, all that counts is the quality of service that we provide and the clients really do not care if you have a “degree” or not.
[1:34 PM]
gotaja @kims in my uni you can get any business degree by doing nothing
[1:35 PM]
joekou but behind that would be the root - which may actually be much more to do with previous life experiences and conflicts/traumas not resolved which now may be coming up as 'i am behind because i dont have the education others have'
[1:35 PM]
gotaja you get 20% of your mark with attendance. So just sit through every class, return empty paper and you pass every class :smile:
only in business school side tho
[1:35 PM]
viktorpersson lol
[1:35 PM]
gotaja all the exchange students love it
they sit there nursing their hangovers :smile:
I worked in Turku science park for 2017 and was all modest and ashamed for not having a degree. After people worked with me some of the high-ups revealed a joke "it doesn't matter which degree you forget when you get a job"
[1:36 PM]
kims Lol gotaja
[1:36 PM]
gotaja it is common in the HR departments there :stuck_out_tongue:
[1:36 PM]
fred I mean look at D.J. Trump lol ... I don't believe he's smarter than you @kims educational wise and being wise
[1:36 PM]
viktorpersson One point that you could work with is to redefine learning – to look at what it means to you and how you can live it in your daily life so that it is not limited to only earning a degree at university
[1:36 PM]
kims Thanks for sharing Fred
[1:36 PM]
joekou to me the value of a person with a degree shows me that they are able to be told what to do and how to think very well - and to me that is a person that is not likely to find creative ways or solutions to problems. i remember when i was hiring my own staff for my office team - the people with graduate degrees were all turned away because in the first few weeks they would go haywire and not be able to work in our environment
[1:37 PM]
kims Haha that’s true - I see that it is very much about comparison
[1:37 PM]
joekou BUT in the eyes of the system a person with those degrees = somebody 'on board' with the system
[1:37 PM]
gotaja granted, it is easier to get your foot in the door with a degree and some doors REQUIRE that. But I've found many alterante routes to these.
[1:37 PM]
fred Absolutely @gotaja! I mean I totally miss the point while in College, when everyone just study the notes from the professors, I go study the whole "Dam" book and failed in every subjects lol
[1:38 PM]
kims Lol @joekou - it is said that often there is no life experience and common sense in students
[1:38 PM]
valentin.rozman And @kims one factor that is very important is how much we really desire to learn something. For example at the “Free Democratic School System” they leave children to at any time learn only what they want, with whom they want and for as long they want. It is proven that knowledge retention is longest when we are the one who desire to learn something due to our curiosity.
[1:38 PM]
kims Lol @fred
[1:38 PM]
gotaja @joekouyea, and with big companies it is part of their risk management. They think that a pool of people with degrees have a higher chance of being valuable. Thereby, they require it to get "better" candidates.
[1:38 PM]
kims Yes exactly @gotaja
[1:38 PM]
joekou @kims yes exactly. i had people coming to interview with loads of schooling and graduate degrees but were not able to think for themselves and had no actual life experience to develop depth, character, or the ability to adapt
yes that as well - for very corporate environments it is also about the numbers - the quota
[1:39 PM]
gotaja @fred yea... I did the same. I read every book to the T and failed often because I knew "too much". Like we had a book about marketing and the test question was "how the writer defined the markets". Well... he didn't. He used the theories of others, which I listed. I told this in my essay and failed due to "having an attitude" :smile:
[1:39 PM]
fred lol this is a true story @kims... lol sadly I only figure out what accounting is about, how to put into different accounts, once you got a hand on anything - it becomes not as difficult as the mind sees it
[1:40 PM]
kims Haha @gotaja
Yes @fred
[1:41 PM]
gotaja but in programming, which I've been teaching myself more and more, the absolute best way to learn is by doing. I didn't have any external measure of excellence, but I was playing with it FOR MYSELF. That + not being disencouraged when nothing worked = learning ability boost for me. Also a memory boost because I WANTED to integrate the information FOR ME.
[1:41 PM]
joekou so @kims how would you characterize your 'struggle' with the point you are facing now, in your day to day in practical terms? what is bringing up the conflict?
[1:41 PM]
valentin.rozman Interesting experience @joekou. Yes, it has been proven the institutional education system in many ways limits individuals and make them less creative, adaptive, self-initiative and being able to come with creative solutions to a problem. Homeschooled people or those who were schooled via “democratic” or “free-range” or “unschooling” system, have much more dynamic abilities.
[1:42 PM]
kims It’s because I am surrounded by younger ‘more system’ educated people
[1:42 PM]
fred Yup!! @gotaja!! I was the worse in class when I graduate in computer studies, If I went back to University again, and just go for the professor notes and hv good attendance, I could hv got scholarships... my 2 cents is just Play by the rules of the System/Society - there are no smart guys/girls, only see who's more cunning city slackers
[1:42 PM]
gotaja when then I resist what I try to learn, I can force myself to do it... puke the stuff on the test paper and forget everything in a matter of days.
[1:42 PM]
kims Interesting @valentin.rozman
[1:42 PM]
joekou ok - so in some ways it is the environment and the culture there
[1:42 PM]
gotaja @fred yea, school is "certification", a "driver's licence"... you become a good driver by yourself on the road afterwards :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:43 PM]
kims Thank you guys some great perspectives here - and points for me to look at
[1:43 PM]
tormod so being in the system - in stead of being of the system, what is the difference ?
[1:43 PM]
fred @gotaja couldn't agree more with you!!! lol
[1:43 PM]
gotaja tho it is good to get a general idea of what you will face on that road. Like especially in programming you get to know the technologies that are out there so that when you start to build something, you know what to go for and "become a good driver in" .
[1:44 PM]
tormod in the system you reverse it when of the system you react to it ?
[1:44 PM]
joekou being in the system just means - you are there. you work with it. you do what you need to do but you dont take any of it personally and you dont fight against it. being OF the system is when you start to judge yourself and others based on the way the SYSTEM judges
[1:44 PM]
valentin.rozman Yes @fred public schooling gives you great “driving licence” for the highways, however if you are in a job where “off-road” driving is required that you are in a big trouble :wink:
[1:44 PM]
joekou being of the system is when you start to believe that people with money and education are better, or when you start to lose sight of who you are and begin to define yourself by what you have
[1:44 PM]
tormod kind of have still not sorted out that difference - thanks
[1:45 PM]
fred My sharing @kims, you can go challenge little/minor achievements first, don't go for degrees right away, besides it takes a lot of money and 4 years to prove yourself a degree
[1:45 PM]
viktorpersson Being of the system = You believe that the system makes sense – Being In the system but NOT of the system = You work with the system but remember that it does not make sense and that it does not define who you are
[1:45 PM]
gotaja @tormod I reacted to the system when I tried to make it be something it was not. Like for years I thought I wasn't allowed to work because I didn't have a degree, so I only went for the "low-end" jobs. Then I went to school thinking that I will be prepared to competently carry big responsibilities... when it was nothing like that, I reacted. Mainly because I understood the self-limitations I had imposed on myself.
[1:46 PM]
valentin.rozman Yes @viktorpersson
[1:46 PM]
tormod so easily bounce of it the system - and start to react
[1:46 PM]
fred Once u pick up the self-confidence point, things become easier on you, because, 1. you can't fake "I am 100% self-confidence on myself" I am now brain washing myself - it didn't work that way(at least on me)
[1:46 PM]
joekou i was in the system when i was running office schemes and trying to find loopholes in corporate rules and systems to cheat money for our company. i did not let that define me. i was not of the system. i did not believe in that way of business - but i used my time there to learn how it works and why it exists
[1:46 PM]
gotaja @tormod at first I then tried to fight and change the system. To "get the teachers and students to see" and it made everything even worse :smile: Then I started to approach it like @viktorpersson
[1:46 PM]
fred 2. Prove to yourself through real achievements - a small step at a time, don't put too much pressure on yourself
[1:48 PM]
viktorpersson Hehe yes, I do so much bs at my work every day – I use at as an opportunity to learn how it works as well
[1:48 PM]
tormod interesting... it is like my body says "stay IN the system dude"... atm. I have had issues with landing on this point. easily go into "jumping" of - reactions/judgements so.... thanks guys !!
[1:49 PM]
joekou @kims - does our sharing tonight help you with looking at your question? any other points we can clarify, expand on, get to know?
[1:49 PM]
kims Yes definitely- thank you guys
[1:50 PM]
gotaja going back to learning ability... school was super hard for me because there is for example "math just to do math". I hated everything and thought I was bad in math. Later on I got actual reasons to do math. Then EVERYTHING started to make sense :slightly_smiling_face: I realized that I am not stupid, but I am actually quite good in it because I am willing to put in the hours to solve that practical tangible thing.
[1:50 PM]
kims Cool @gotaja
[1:50 PM]
valentin.rozman @kims I am now for example building a big business and I have no knowledge and experiences how to do that. However considering my age I can not afford to spend years in some business school to learn knowledge that I might need to use or never need at all. So I am taking slow steps that fit my “current natural learning ability” and progress with my own speed and making sure not to compare myself to how fast other business people are able to move.
[1:50 PM]
gotaja uploaded this image: 28053024_10156287955148678_119896806_n.jpg

[1:51 PM]
joekou if there is one thing i could remove from existence it would be comparison
[1:51 PM]
gotaja previously I would have thought that this is magic by some genius
[1:51 PM]
kims I see the key in your words @valentin.rozman as natural learning
[1:51 PM]
gotaja now it is hours and hours of testing with a good friend that was actually fun!
[1:51 PM]
kims Which just hit a note with me cause we all learn differently
[1:51 PM]
gotaja (a resolver formula for a robotic arm, if anyone is interested :stuck_out_tongue: )
[1:51 PM]
joekou duh we knew that @gotaja
[1:51 PM]
viktorpersson awesome @gotaja – great example of how we should be learning things
[1:52 PM]
fred Back then, I self-doubt/self-question on my decision of becoming a salesperson, Back then Avery was still with me, whenever I self-discourage myself and feeling very down, he told me: What good is if for beating yourself up everyday?? It won't help you, at all @kims! Once you hv a goal, go 100% for it!! Why use the time to self-doubt your decision?? You still hv common sense. 1. If it turns out good/with self-improvements, that's cool! 2. If it turns out bad, u don't fail! you live 100% of you and that feels good and makes u happy, makes u stronger in your next challenge in Life!! See, it's a all - win situation .... unless u self-doubt/self-sabotage/self-beaten urself up
[1:52 PM]
gotaja sorry joe :smile:
[1:52 PM]
kims Yes I could have told you that @gotaja
:joy::joy:
Thanks Fred that’s good advice
Got to go guys
Thanks again
[1:53 PM]
tormod lol .. thanks guys - staying IN the system
[1:53 PM]
kims Bye all
[1:54 PM]
tormod enjoy all !
[1:54 PM]
viktorpersson bye!
[1:54 PM]
gotaja you too T-man and all!
[1:54 PM]
joekou thanks everyone
bye for now
[1:54 PM]
fred Come back when u need us Kim!!
[1:54 PM]
valentin.rozman @gotaja I also had problem with math in the middle school because I was not shown how to practically apply and I actually wanted to study graphic design and landed in the machine engineering not enough available eats at design school. And on top of that I had a very bad math teacher which was an emotional wreck and did also not new math very much so I struggled to get minimum grades just to pass the semester.
Thanks all and bye :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:55 PM]
gotaja @valentin.rozman I hear ya man! We should thrive to make it more practical :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:57 PM]
fred It's so so so easy to slip/fail in a University class, yet, it's just like how system/society works, I m sure those of us who hv studied in University bf. heard of/see, girls even fl**t on professors to get a better grade
[9:40 PM]
yoganb "I am fully aware of why this is a point with me, but I struggle with the pre programmed idea of being inferior because I had s limited education." I found that its not possible to FULLY understand WHY a point exists within you, and STRUGGLE with directing the point. Its impossible. Being able to fully direct a point and Understanding it go hand in hand. Sometimes they emerge together, sometimes one before the other, yet that relationship is clearly there. So its an assumption/belief here that might be blocking further investigation and understanding.
You Struggle === not fully understanding the point, and yourself in relationship to it.



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