Self Definition and Breaking Through Limitations - 21 February 2018

Marlen
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Self Definition and Breaking Through Limitations - 21 February 2018

Postby Marlen » 21 Feb 2018, 22:08

marlen set the channel topic: Open Floor! - Got a topic? Share it and we'll discuss it today
[1:01 PM]
valentin.rozman Hi all :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:02 PM]
gian Well come
hi
[1:03 PM]
marlen hey guys, any subject, drop it on the pool and we can decide
this can also be the spot to share the planning and doing and share more on that, or something else
[1:04 PM]
valentin.rozman I have a medium tooth pain and my right cheek is swollen due to another root canal dental procedure.
[1:05 PM]
marlen well take care of that @valentin.rozman so, any suggested topics?
[1:05 PM]
anna I would like to look at social media addiction
[1:05 PM]
carlton Hello
[1:05 PM]
marlen I can suggest looking at how holding on to an idea of self/self definition becomes a root of conflict, suffering, shame etc. and how to walk through that
[1:06 PM]
anna and people saying social media is the new 'evil' lol and are actively logging off because they feel like it's taking up their time and their sanity.
[1:06 PM]
gian I like Marlens one
[1:06 PM]
joekou after doing the recording with Enlil a lot opened up for me in terms of what it means to be a 'storyteller' - and i also started to understand more of what it means to be a 'showman' - to echo something bernard told me long ago
[1:06 PM]
gian I also like Annas
[1:06 PM]
joekou i like marlen's
[1:06 PM]
valentin.rozman I found a lot articles and books about root canals linking to cancers, hearth disease and similar and I wanted to check this with Sunette/portal at some near occasion.
[1:06 PM]
anna Some say that children today and people in general can't focus at all in the same way because of the constant access to social media - and that the way the platforms are structured, is destructive.
I like my topic. :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:07 PM]
gian I will vote for Marlens topic for tonight
[1:07 PM]
marlen interesting ones, well the definition one is echoing - taking Joe's word here lol - Jack's latest interview which was very relevant for me, to see how much conflict we create when we hold on to a definition of myself.
[1:07 PM]
joekou i have also seen that report anna - various ones over the years
[1:07 PM]
marlen so people's voting time now!
I vote for the storytelling one
[1:08 PM]
joekou i vote for marlens
[1:08 PM]
valentin.rozman I vote for social media addiction
[1:08 PM]
kims Interesting valentin- I have tooth pain this evening
[1:08 PM]
valentin.rozman Sorry to hear that @kims
[1:09 PM]
kims Same to you !
[1:09 PM]
kimk I vote for the self-definition topic, marlen's topic as well
[1:09 PM]
marlen to recap:
Marlen's - Definition of self as source of conflict and how to walk through that
Joe - Storytelling
Anna - Social Media addiction -

Vote guys!
[1:09 PM]
talamon -->Marlen's
[1:09 PM]
gian --> Marlen
[1:09 PM]
marlen while remembering wink wink we can do the others next times
[1:09 PM]
anna Anna
:wink:
[1:10 PM]
valentin.rozman It seems Marlen has been elected :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:10 PM]
marlen one, two, three, so it's four against 2 so let's go with the self-definition one
[1:10 PM]
joekou marlen the people who have spoken have spoken
[1:10 PM]
marlen set the channel topic: Self Definition and Breaking Through Limitations
[1:10 PM]
gian Tonights topic, practicing democracy online in a group chat
[1:11 PM]
joekou no gian i veto that
[1:11 PM]
gian lol
[1:11 PM]
marlen k deal so, as I was saying, it is related to latest Jack interview on Journeys into the Afterlife and how he was holding on to a point of self definition that didn't allow himself to really be one and equal to the part of the physical he was in
[1:11 PM]
anna Yes!
[1:11 PM]
carlton @joekou Which video you did with Enlil
[1:12 PM]
marlen and as I listened to it it opened up how I was facing a point of struggle, confusion, shame, guilt, fear because of how I have defined myself in relation to 'who I am' and 'what I'm supposed to be' and 'where I'm supposed to be'
[1:12 PM]
joekou not video - it was on Eqafe in the repilians series "The Last Resort to Imprisoning Your Being" i believe it is called
[1:12 PM]
carlton Ok thanks @joekou
[1:12 PM]
marlen we had discussed the 'where I'm supposed to be' before in a chat, but this time it had to do more with realizing how the source of conflict is how my choices and decisions were 'in conflict' with the IDEAL that I had created and preserved about myself in my mind, which were no longer matching reality
[1:13 PM]
anna Oh yes - I can relate lol
[1:13 PM]
marlen so, I started seeing how the source of conflict was me holding on to an idea of what I'm supposed to be, where I'm supposed to be, and how I'm supposed to be 'for others' or 'at the eyes of others'
[1:13 PM]
valentin.rozman Yes, I’ve listened to it @joekou
[1:13 PM]
joekou the reality of me and the potential of me
[1:13 PM]
marlen which then relates to entering in conflict with the reality of what I am doing, choosing living as who I am deciding to be.
[1:13 PM]
joekou there will be a follow up to that recording that goes into more specific context - for those who heard the first one.
[1:13 PM]
marlen can anyone relate to it - besides Anna too? hehe
[1:13 PM]
gian Self-Definition for me becomes a problem when I hold myself prisoner to what I believe others now expect of me through how I have been and presenting myself. Then conflict arises within myself of who I must be within certain situations/events or moments, the presented self of the self-definitions I have not defined myself of, or can I be who I am as an expression in the moment according to the moment, but what will people think then?
[1:14 PM]
anna This happens to me allll the time lol
[1:14 PM]
joekou for me i relate it to not being absolutely self honest with myself and not wanting to admit to the things i am ashamed of or feel guilty for - where i try to live in idealized version of myself despite what is going on within
[1:14 PM]
marlen yes @gian exactly has to do a lot with 'what will others think of me' and then leads us to cage who we are as a mistake, a faux pass, a 'wrong choice' a 'wrong path', not 'nailing it' or 'losing' something etc, all because of that self-definition
[1:14 PM]
valentin.rozman Yes, I can relate to that too @marlen
[1:15 PM]
joekou like "that is not what joe kou would have done!" but not questioning what the fuck is a joe kou
[1:15 PM]
marlen yes @joekou there's also the admitting to oneself which then also causes a point of conflict, like it was said in that interview with Enlil, how because we are judging it, then we suppress it or hide it because it doesn't match the idea of 'who we are'
[1:15 PM]
anna Virtually every time I have a 'fall', it is because I've placed myself in a 'high' position in my mind of expecting something unrealistic of myself or something that isn't aligned with reality. I am beginning to question whether that IS what a fall is, where reality realigns itself whenever we move ourselves away from here - and so we'll either DROP it, or we'll eventually FALL - and that fall is not bad or wrong, it simply means we're coming back to reality, but that can be a brute and rough awakening if you've been in a delusion in your mind about being something you're not.
[1:15 PM]
marlen yes @joekou exactly that's the kind of point we can look at here, which relates to also looking at what/who defines 'Me' as such
[1:16 PM]
joekou yes anna
my otha motha sista
[1:17 PM]
marlen cool @anna yes this is indeed about such reality checks where we can see how much of what we think of ourselves is not really matching reality and when we realize that, then conflict emerges because we believe there's something 'wrong' with it, but, question is.... who created the IDEAL in the first place? Who elevated oneself to such standards and limited frames of existence?
[1:17 PM]
kimk And it's also not like we know exactly who we are, beyond the self-definition, that is also a process to walk, not a given thing that I feel confident about automatically, but have to discover and be vulnerable about while at the same time letting go of the self-definition
[1:17 PM]
tormod Letting go of self definition Yea, why do we need to defy ourself ? That Jack interview was nice. I am looking into myself as a cell (!) these days and it is moooost rewarding
[1:18 PM]
marlen yes @kimk cool you mention that, because once that we realize ok I've created the self-definition, I created the 'idea' of myself, then all that opens up is this array of possibilities, which is actually quite cool, similar to what Jack mentioned, but we somehow fear losing limitation duh
[1:18 PM]
kimk Yes, and as jack said, it is a constant process of self-discovery - how cool!
[1:18 PM]
tormod I would say i mix self definition and purpose
[1:19 PM]
marlen so, what are some of the things we can remind ourselves about once that we realize how much we are limiting ourselves via our own ideas, expectations, prejudices, definitions of ourselves?
[1:19 PM]
talamon for me its kind of superimposing idea of how I could be better/more effective - but then if I focus to that, can end up less effective actually, as the idea is not in harmony/agreement with myself, but of worry
[1:19 PM]
joekou what if... and bear with me here... what if we are more than what we defined ourselves as. *mind blown*
[1:19 PM]
marlen so @kimk has shared some, there's the need for vulnerability, to be open to this self discovery and possibilities
[1:19 PM]
joekou but we tent to fight for that last shred of self definition
[1:19 PM]
marlen @talamon yes that's one of the ideals we hold on to instead of working on it, so how to ground that potential into creation?
[1:20 PM]
joekou like it gives us purpose or reason
[1:20 PM]
marlen @joekou yep, so how to assist ourselves to remind us it is ok to break the cookie-cutter shape?
[1:20 PM]
joekou there is no spoon
[1:20 PM]
talamon its kind of false sense of structure and stability but turns out to be cage
[1:20 PM]
joanajesus just read the chat so far and yes, this point resonates with me all the time too
[1:21 PM]
marlen we all fear change, we definitely know that, have tasted that, so here we can root and share ways to remind ourselves: it's ok to let go, test the waters outside of the pond
[1:21 PM]
joekou for me it comes back to the willingness to let go - which coincidentally requires us to first embrace and hold and accept
we have to be able to call it as it is - at least with ourselves
[1:21 PM]
marlen yes @talamon exactly that's a cool reminder, how it feels like a point of control, of certainty, yet it is in fact a cage, a comfort zone at the same time, so can remind ourselves of that to dare to do things differently
[1:21 PM]
talamon @marlen that's cool question - keep cross-referencing and dropping the idea of myself as with actual learning and expansion, I change anyway, which then does not need self-defining ideas, like baby clothes, once parent buys it, weeks and they grow out of it, so needs balance of such structure and expansion maybe
[1:21 PM]
kimk I have found that, in moments of defensiveness, embarrassment, shame, self-judgment, I can finally start to instead laugh at myself, like, yes, I did that, now what? How do I deal with it practically?
[1:22 PM]
anna Something I've looked at in the past in my process, is the importance of walking with myself HERE, AS I AM, meaning to have a realistic and self-honest (not judgmental!) perspective on myself - a holistic/wholesome perspective, so that whoever I am, all the dimensions, that is what I walk from/with.
[1:22 PM]
gian How I have trapped myself was as follow- in a certain time in the past, I had to be strong (a self-definition moment) according to a situation, s I took on the strong character, throughout this I have now stood as this strong character for a very long time, taking hard hits, taking serious moments and "standing" - but inside myself within certain moments I just didn't want to be the strong person, I wanted to actually express myself, I wanted to open up and share and get real, but I didn't, because I have now defined myself of this strong person, that also MUST be strong to help others be stable and to be confident, so I remained within the character. and years past by, and in the years I have never been able to even talk, or write or apply self forgiveness on ANY of the past moments where I was "strong" because I now fear, I will not only break the IDEA of myself in others eyes, but that I might possible destabilize everyone that has used my "strength" and standing and so forth through exposing myself and showing "weakness" and then the fear comes up of, what now, people might not see me the same and realize that I am still here, still equally capable as before, I only now am dealing with my suppressed points. And so, also fearing that now others will fear that what I have been standing strong for becomes suddenly invalid, so I keep on compromising myself from opening up, from showing weakness and from dealing with myself. This is one pattern of how self-definition has not only compromised a moment but in fact YEARS and accumulated to what feels like building a house of cards as my reality.
[1:22 PM]
valentin.rozman I am currently facing a decision how to market a product that me and my friend are developing and it is basically up to me to design the visuals and the whole marketing, sales and customer support system. I am am questioning if this is the right decision for me to engage in such a project since I am used to work as freelancer, being independent and not creating any long-term commitments to customers.
[1:22 PM]
marlen willingness to let go, yes, to me what creates a lot of noise is holding on to 'what could have been' and the potential of 'another path' that I didn't walk, so I realized that upon making choices, I have to completely let go of the 'other one path' and embrace the one I'm taking fully
[1:22 PM]
anna As soon as we start trying to walk ahead of ourselves and try to loose our 'shadow' there's a problem, and we'll have to circle back to 'fetch' that par of oursevles that we left behind.
[1:23 PM]
marlen @talamon yes it means more actual doing, testing, finding ways rather than holding on to the idea of it, so more action in general
[1:23 PM]
joekou all i have been really is a series of characters - some of which i have conditioned myself to be fully invested in. but it is all just characters - and when we realize a particular character cannot continue we do go through a form of death which is painful and scary and we want to blame the world or relationships or everything else for this pain - until we really let go and discover that despite this character dying, we remain.
[1:23 PM]
anna Wow @gian - fascinating, and I can relate, also that point of using others as a justification
[1:23 PM]
talamon for instance I started to wear blue shirts for seeing if it helps me getting better jobs as I was after that - and when I met with my ragged caveman like hippie friends, realized the contrast and felt awkward, but then realized - its alright and as long as I remain myself and 'natural' - they don't react or if they would, that's them and I can cross-reference as it's just a shirt, not who I am
[1:24 PM]
marlen that's cool @kimk to remind ourselves that those are experiences clouding those moments from actually getting to the real meat of the situation: what to do now, how to follow through with it
[1:24 PM]
anna Another point in relation to this, is when you then start trying to break out of your self-definition - and are met with inner and perhaps outer resistance.
[1:25 PM]
carlton cool @gian
[1:25 PM]
joanajesus when I was young I found so difficult to decide on a path that I desired that someone said to me to be this or to be that (specifically in a professional path). So I ended up defining myself as undefined, and now that I have been here for 30 years I realise that there was actually fear of deciding on something based on the fear of missing out on other things.
So that has been my starting point, which is definitely source of inner conflict, confusion and lack of self-trust, thinking that I should be doing something else instead. To me, the challenge has been to accept where I am now, trusting that I am here and therefore always able to direct myself to another path if I choose so; and to not be absolutist about it either
[1:25 PM]
talamon also cool to just screw with self definition by random acts - I hated to wear suit so I just wore them, even at home, in bed etc - break it's self-defined spell on how to behave in such
[1:25 PM]
anna I have started seeing for instance how there is a value and purpose to me wearing clothes that makes me feel feminine and graceful - but I am still totally judging that as 'superficial' and 'consumerist' and 'fake' because it's so related to image - and I am therefore having to walk a process of shedding old skin but also how to create a new one that isn't just another layer of self-deception.
[1:25 PM]
marlen that's quite a cool example of a point to step out from @gian also recognizing that it takes strength and courage to recognize a 'weakness' in fact, and how to balance that where the idea of a strong/immovable person seems reliable, trustworthy, but we know things don't really work like that, so showing our falls and weaknesses actually strengthens our character, a cool reminder for myself as well
[1:26 PM]
joekou i confess a bit of something here - up until that point of the recording with enlil - a part of me was so heavily invested in the losing hope and the shame and the wanting to walk away from it all that there was a very real chance i might have gone all the way. but in that moment just before i spoke the first words in that recording - i decided to 'die' but not as who i am, but as who i was carrying myself on as.
[1:26 PM]
anna Cool @joekou
[1:26 PM]
joekou and since then it is as though the weight was lifted - i just needed to come clean with myself and be able to admit it
[1:26 PM]
gian awesome @joekou
[1:26 PM]
joekou be able to call it what it is and be real with myself - totally unfiltered - and when i pushed myself to just share that it was like the magic dispelled
suddenly i wasn't the greatest fuckup in existence
[1:27 PM]
carlton cool @joekou
[1:27 PM]
marlen awesome @joanajesus the fear of missing out is a biggie one as well where we hold two or more paths as possibilities, and what you mention is a cool solution: accepting where I am, trusting myself and wherever I am, I can direct myself, I can change gears if I want to again, without being absolutist, very cool thank you
[1:27 PM]
anna Yes, and all that, that you thought you knew was SOO REAL, is suddenly POOF gone - as in it never existed to begin with @joekou lol
[1:27 PM]
kimk wow @joekou amazing
[1:27 PM]
joanajesus indeed @marlen that would be the message I would give to my young self.
[1:27 PM]
joekou lol anna well it is all still here - what changes is that i am not directed by it
[1:28 PM]
valentin.rozman Great realisation @joekou
[1:28 PM]
marlen @anna yeah that's an initial 'clash' in a way, an adaptation phase but can continue working on the judgments until you embrace the new you as that's your decision, so seeing how the self-definition as 'not femenine' or whatever else you held yourself as an idea of 'who you are' is causing the noise
[1:28 PM]
joekou i am healing now instead of actively deteriorating
[1:28 PM]
kimk awesome example @gian
[1:28 PM]
talamon great to 'hear', @joekou keep living!
[1:29 PM]
marlen very cool for sharing that @joekou sharing it, speaking it, breaks the spell, awesome point, we sometimes hold it 'in' so long and it festers, rots without solution, so it's an excellent reminder: speak out, ask for support, don't hold it in, we're here - not only for you but everyone else out there reading this
[1:29 PM]
anna It is more that I held a notion of not being allowed to focus on how you look @marlen - but it is like there's a slight difference in intent, but exactly because my self-definition was "I don't focus on how I look", I wasn't able to go all the way there and actually enjoy it and support myself.
[1:30 PM]
marlen so that's another awesome point there @joekou the 'death' of the limited self, the one that beliefs that this is it, there's no way out, I'm done, this is the 'worst of the worst' and how you can still come out on the other side from it
[1:30 PM]
joanajesus also realising that time is relative - after 8 years working in a field, I look back and I see that I had not planned it like that - this encourages me to now consider a new path, and accepting that in another 5 years I can be doing something else again. So to not be my own limitation and to simply work with what is here.
[1:30 PM]
joekou yes i had actually started to turn it into my self definition until i was like .... wait, why?
[1:30 PM]
kimk yes, VERY supportive sharing and recording @joekou, already I am seeing myself push to say things I would have normally kept in because of reflecting on the interview you did
[1:30 PM]
anna Oh I can so relate
[1:30 PM]
marlen yeah @anna I can relate, I battled with that for some time years ago until I embraced the fact that I like wearing particular kinds of clothes and expressing who I am in them and since then, not a problem, but a point of support that I like about myself
[1:31 PM]
anna I have a very prominent experience that MY flaws and weaknesses are like the worst of all flaws and weaknessess, and then I was like: "but wait a minute... what if I all people feel this way?" lol
[1:31 PM]
joekou and thank you all - i was terrified in the beginning - like 'oh my god i will lose all credibility with destonians'
how could any destonian be going through this? lol
[1:31 PM]
kimk haha - quite the opposite
[1:31 PM]
tormod You own it Joe - You direct it / the energy, awsome example and humbeling to see you walk this mr :heart_decoration:
[1:31 PM]
anna And have a look @joekou - you came CLOSER instead. Cause I've been wondering where you were. and HERE you are, and I feel closer to you than ever.
[1:31 PM]
marlen @joanajesus very cool relativity of time and how we believe 'this path/decision/me' is forever! when in fact we can't know how many variables there can be to it and whatever we choose, we know we got ourselves to make the best of it
[1:31 PM]
joekou i remember when sunette asked me to come and do the recording - in the entire day leading up to the moment before i spoke i was scared
[1:32 PM]
anna when was this @joekou?
[1:32 PM]
joekou days ago
but has been a long time coming
i've been dealing with some traumatic things in secret
[1:32 PM]
joanajesus is there a link to the recordng @joekou?
[1:33 PM]
joekou and it reached a point of opening up and asking sunette for a cross reference
[1:33 PM]
anna Yes, that's usually how it tends to go @joekou.
[1:33 PM]
joekou and now here we are
[1:33 PM]
marlen yeah that's a cool point to share as well joe, how terrifying it feels to open up about something like that, yet how relieving it is when one actually confronts it with others and it is no longer an experience inside you only
[1:33 PM]
kimk wow joe
[1:33 PM]
marlen https://eqafe.com/p/the-last-resort-to- ... s-part-590
EQAFE - Self-perfection Interviews, Books & Music
The Last Resort to Imprison your Being - Reptilians - Part 590
When we are at the very cusp of real change and breaking through, we often encounter the greatest resistance and the hardest challenges. Enki and a Destonian share a real time case study of what lengths the mind can go to in order to ensure that we remain trapped in limitations and self sabotage, instead of stepping forth into our potential and rebirthing ourselves. How do we face the deepes...
https://eqafe.com/uploads/product/image ... rt-590.jpg
[1:33 PM]
joekou a mini death and rebirth lol
[1:33 PM]
joanajesus thanks Marlen!
[1:34 PM]
agalew hi all
[1:34 PM]
marlen that's Joe's latest interview and follow up: https://eqafe.com/p/the-last-resort-pra ... s-part-591
EQAFE - Self-perfection Interviews, Books & Music
The Last Resort: Practical Support - Reptilians - Part 591
When facing the darkest and most challenging parts of ourselves it is easy to want to hide or even decide to turn our backs on those closest to us and become angry at the world and our circumstances. But what if we had the courage to face our inner demons with self-honesty instead of fear? How do we begin to change our fears and resistances into our deepest and darkest aspects in a way that ...
https://eqafe.com/uploads/product/image ... rt-591.jpg
[1:34 PM]
joekou i still have a process to walk as we all do - but i came back from a very dangerous brink that i hope nobody will try to take on alone
[1:34 PM]
anna It's like in the 8. Mile movie when Eminem reveals all his weaknesses and it makes it completely impossible for his opponent to beat him, sort of - transparency is an amazing tool.
[1:34 PM]
joekou haha cool analogy @anna
yes when you own it nobody else can use it against you
[1:34 PM]
marlen @joekou so yes that's another cool point, the 'death' of the part of you that gives up, that doesn't want to 'let go' and how that actually opens up a whole new set of possibilities, which is then hand in hand with this topic of holding on to self-definitions/limitations and believing it's the end of one's world
[1:34 PM]
kimk very courageous joe
[1:34 PM]
joekou not even yourself
lol
[1:35 PM]
carlton Gtg guy will read rest later.
[1:35 PM]
joekou it remains a moment to moment decision
have to keep deciding consistently
back to basics - the one plus one accumulation
[1:35 PM]
joanajesus "until we really let go and discover that despite this character dying, we remain." @joekou awesome
[1:35 PM]
marlen so that's how self honesty becomes an 'ugly' thing to face at times, yet it's the most liberating thing to do at the same time
[1:35 PM]
talamon yes
[1:36 PM]
anna Yes @joekou
[1:36 PM]
joekou so as it relates to @marlens topic - that is my little piece of sharing how our self definitions can cause us to remain in or continue recreating trauma
[1:36 PM]
marlen so the ugliness, shameful, 'wrong' aspect of it exists only as the judgments we hold of ourselves as it, the experience only, and that's also the other relevant part of it all, it's an experience, a failsafe in our minds to keep us trapped
[1:37 PM]
valentin.rozman When I am down I remind myself just how lucky I am that despite all the challenges I am living a relatively good life that I can be very thankful for comparing to millions who currently suffer wars and starvation. So for me there is basically nothing that a short power nap can not solve.
[1:37 PM]
marlen yeah it's definitely inspired by that and connected, where we keep rehashing the idea of 'who we are supposed to be' in our heads and correlate it with reality and it all seems 'wrong'
[1:37 PM]
joanajesus and this happens in every moment of our daily lives. For example, a reaction that we decide not to feed and take a different approach, realising that it's possible to not react and deal with the point in self-stability
[1:37 PM]
talamon it's like when fighting wars against a self-hated addiction for a long time and eventually opening up to it to see that it's just a shadow of another point I did not dare to see yet and it's not even that huge once worded down to specificity
[1:38 PM]
marlen @valentin.rozman it can assist, though I've decided to not take such extremes as a point of reference, because it leads me to then shove aside whatever I am in fact facing and experiencing in my life, so all things considered there to not always place my life and position as 'much better than the worst life on earth' as a point of reference
[1:38 PM]
joekou @valentin.rozman cool - though would here maybe also look at the comparison point a bit.
[1:38 PM]
anna Yes, that helps me too @valentin.rozman - if I feel sorry for myself for feel like everything is shit to go: "ok, but you're laying here sobbing in your white sheets and a pretty decent life, it's not THAT bad." But then again, sometimes those DEEP energies gets me too, exactly like @joekou shared. So it depends on the point one is facing.
[1:39 PM]
kimk For me, I've found I would use a self-definition for public use, which is happy, normal, fine, and then I would have a secret self-definition, which is the self-judgment of bad/wrong/sinner/tainted - which I have been opening up lately, being supported by listening to demons in the afterlife now from #1, because it is really my own suppressed 'demons' that I wasn't looking at and understanding, but instead defining myself as.
[1:39 PM]
marlen @joanajesus yes that's another example of 'simpler' forms of self definition too there, the 'usual ways' we would react to something and deciding for that new approach, rooting it and in that branching ourselves out into a new possibility of living that moment
[1:39 PM]
joekou because in a way it is like saying - if we were one of those impoverished people we would have more valid excuse to give up
[1:39 PM]
valentin.rozman I appreciate the hint @marlen and @joekou
[1:39 PM]
joekou not something i am wanting to tempt life into creating in order for me to face lol
have had enough of those already
[1:40 PM]
joanajesus there was one post on your instagram @anna that stayed with me, and it was about a moment you were facing with your daughter. The realisation was: "This too shall pass". I have been applying it to situations at work and it has been very supportive as my tendency is to over-react and make it such a big deal when in fact, in a couple of weeks I will forget about it and it will be solved. So I now focus on who I am in that moment, where I can stop the reaction, take it easy, be practical about it and not stuck myself in it... because this too shall pass!
[1:40 PM]
marlen cool reminder there @kimk as that point of embracing ourselves and listening to the demon series for that, it's indeed that which we resist facing that holds the key to actually empowering ourselves, to stand equal to such 'worst' and understand it in order to change it, if we keep it as the basket of dirty laundry we don't want to get to wash, guess what? won't wash itself lol, so we gotta do it
[1:40 PM]
anna Something I've been wondering @joekou is how come you and I seem to have so similar base-programs, cause we've lived very different lives. But then again, I don't think the programs care lol.
[1:41 PM]
marlen yeah cool point @joekou on having the 'excuse' then to give up
[1:41 PM]
joekou at the end of it all we are all the same - just different arrangements of systems and degrees
it is an illusion of separation and is bound to have overlaps
[1:41 PM]
anna For sure
[1:41 PM]
marlen yes that's a cool reminder as well for today @joanajesus 'this too shall pass' and how we tend to blow things out of proportion at the same time, and how things are much easier in fact once we confront them, they all seem much worse in our heads
[1:42 PM]
anna Yes for sure @joanajesus - where it's really helped me is when feeling low in physical energy, that I trust myself that it will come back and to not stress or worry about it, especially when being sleep-deprived.
I've barely slept for a year, and I took my sleep pretty seriously, and I'm fine lol.
[1:43 PM]
joanajesus I'm preparing myself for that @anna :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:43 PM]
marlen that's another example of breaking through a belief/definition and testing out in real life, you still exist after not living the definition of 'sleeping well' every night
Ok so words to live for breaking through self-definition
I take from this chat: letting go, flexibility, self trust
[1:44 PM]
anna And then maybe you'll have a baby like @maite @joanajesus that sleeps through the night lol
[1:44 PM]
joekou buckle the fuck up - because you WILL face your darkest fears and greatest weaknesses one way or another - and it may not be nice or pleasant but being able to be direct with ourselves even in the face of 'death' will give you a much smoother transition lol
[1:44 PM]
marlen what other words do you take with you to live from today's chat guys?
[1:45 PM]
kimk vulnerability, stand
[1:45 PM]
joekou and for gods sakes - reach out
[1:45 PM]
kimk lol!
[1:45 PM]
marlen ok, being direct with oneself, go it and reaching out when it becomes unbearable alone
[1:45 PM]
joanajesus my sleep is also being interrupted in the past week (different motives but primarily due to physical needs of the third trimester lol) and now I take this as a playground for the months ahead - or not! Maybe I will sleep even better when the baby is out
[1:45 PM]
kimk yes joe
[1:45 PM]
tormod This to shall pass, death of limits
[1:45 PM]
joekou jesus people - seriously - wtf - talk to someone
[1:45 PM]
marlen cool @kimk
[1:46 PM]
anna Prepare yourself for a bumpy ride
As we say in Denmark: Hold onto your hat and your glasses ladies and gentlemen.
[1:46 PM]
marlen @tormod yep death as the end of something but at the same time the beginning of something else, as a reminder as well
[1:46 PM]
joekou dont fight the protestors. invite them in for tea
[1:46 PM]
anna when Sunette talked about this year and what's ahead, I felt it for sure - and it is a relief.
[1:47 PM]
marlen lol, yep I can take that metaphorically, don't fight the 'I should not be doing this' but understand it, embrace it and seeing what is it representing about myself that I need to learn and understand
[1:47 PM]
anna I say: Bring it on.
[1:47 PM]
valentin.rozman When the life brings you lemons, make some lemonade :wink:
[1:47 PM]
joekou lol
[1:47 PM]
kimk Joe - can I ask, how did you feel when you were in these moments, if/when people reached out to you at any point, if that happened while you were facing this.
[1:47 PM]
joekou or not. you can always just leave the lemons. nobody is the boss of you
[1:48 PM]
anna When life brings you lemons, be a lemon lol
One of the points mentioned @kimk is that you start pushing people away and reject them
[1:48 PM]
valentin.rozman Be a creative chef from the available ingredients
[1:48 PM]
joekou i was so convinced that the best thing to do was for me to 'die' - that i would have, and have, pushed people away who tried to help before i was 'ready'
[1:48 PM]
kimk Or is it something that you can only face by reaching out to others/being the one to 'make the move' do you think?
[1:48 PM]
anna Cause the tendency is to isolate oneself - and then one also starts attacking others. (That's what I can relate to).
[1:49 PM]
joekou i saw myself as a cancer - a toxic thing - best to be avoided and best to not let myself become a burden to others
[1:49 PM]
joanajesus @joekou what do you mean "before I was ready"?
[1:49 PM]
anna How did you imagine that dying would be @joekou? Quitting process or leaving the farm or what did it mean?
[1:49 PM]
kimk Yes - this was something in my childhood - that i'd rather not exist - that I had to face recently through walking a point of self-deprecation
[1:50 PM]
joekou i would never be able to stop being a destonian - but yes going back to the US and just fading out - pretending i was never a part of it because i was ashamed of what i became and didnt want desteni associated with my failure
odd to say it out loud now
[1:50 PM]
anna Oh man I've been there.
[1:50 PM]
joekou but that was 'truth' for me
[1:50 PM]
marlen yep @kimk I had that too, feeling a burden at times as a child and feeling like I was taking just money, space, resources lol
[1:50 PM]
anna I almost did that too once @joekou - all because of a 'small' mistake I had made.
[1:51 PM]
joekou it doesn't matter how small or big it is
to us it is real
and that is the point
but i did realize that this is not the way to go for me
[1:51 PM]
marlen so breaking through that spell is abso-fucking-lutely important there @joekou thanks for sharing it
[1:51 PM]
joekou this is not how i will end my story - not after all i have been through
my sense of good storytelling just wouldn't allow it lol
[1:52 PM]
kimk lol!
[1:52 PM]
marlen that's cool @joekou and looking forward to what is to come out of it, will sure help many many in the same or similar situation
[1:52 PM]
kimk yes
[1:52 PM]
tormod Quite some self honesty there @joekou remarkable
[1:52 PM]
joekou scary but worth it
[1:53 PM]
anna Glad you're here @joekou!
[1:53 PM]
marlen and yep @anna another reminder of how it feels that we cannot forgive ourselves for a mistake and would rather avoid and 'fade out' than facing it, so having the courage to understand it and acknowledge and stand from it is definitely the way to stick through
[1:53 PM]
joekou so if any can take support from it - GREAT. i dont recommend going the lengths i went but i am glad to share it
[1:53 PM]
kimk we can all learn here, how to be REAL and RAW! I know I have, this one really hit home with me, a reminder of the awesomness of process
[1:53 PM]
anna The change for me was to FORCE myself to stop the thoughts and then FORCE myself to start writing, keeping it very structured and stringent initially.
[1:53 PM]
joekou i now deem all of you FORGIVABLE
by yourselves
[1:54 PM]
kimk lol!
[1:54 PM]
marlen yep @kimk where we think we are alone in our 'own worst possible scenarios' until we share back and realize we are going through similar things/have gone through similar things and can assist each other = we're not alone in this
[1:54 PM]
joanajesus interesting @joekou because in my view I always thought how "lucky" you were for living in the farm for undetermined time. There was a part of me that hoped to do the same thing but I created my life differently and I am now stable where I am. Just to give you a different perspective - I know you are making the best of it and that even this point in your journey is part of it
[1:54 PM]
joekou by the power vested in me i pronounce thee - totally capable of self forgiveness no matter what
now you have someone telling you it is okay
[1:54 PM]
marlen lol cool
[1:55 PM]
valentin.rozman Awesome @joekou
[1:55 PM]
joekou @joanajesus it is all specific
[1:55 PM]
joanajesus it doesn't matter where one is really, in terms of place in the world as we are all facing our points one way or another
[1:55 PM]
joekou yes
[1:55 PM]
kimk agreed @joanajesus
[1:55 PM]
marlen yep that's another cool reminder there @joanajesus what seem our biggest falls and mistakes and whatever else, part of our journey, part of what's there to understand indeed
ok guys last couple of minutes, speak now or die forever with it in relation to today's topic :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:55 PM]
joekou i will open up more in the storytelling material to come
how i look at 'storytelling' - will kind of explain how i was able to turn around
[1:56 PM]
marlen lol that's an absolutist definition there, got you! but you know what it means, at least for now
[1:56 PM]
anna Yes I was about to say this before as well, that it goes to show that the farm is not this magical place where all your worries will be poof gone lol
[1:56 PM]
joekou no lol
[1:56 PM]
marlen yep, all about who one is, no matter where or with whom or with what.... always facing self
[1:56 PM]
anna As my mom says: "the gnome moves with you".
[1:56 PM]
joanajesus lol
[1:57 PM]
anna or the elf on the shelf or whatever it is... the devil on the shoulder... the demons inside.
[1:57 PM]
joanajesus the self
[1:57 PM]
tormod Monkey on the back
[1:57 PM]
anna the self - yes, thank you. lol
ALL your self.
[1:57 PM]
joekou you cannot hide from self
[1:57 PM]
marlen awesome guys, thank you very much for sharing today, appreciate it as always and let's keep at it supporting each other here and for the rest of our times
[1:57 PM]
tormod Trolls in the closet
[1:58 PM]
anna not just the pretty, fancy, ambitious, parts. Also all the poopy parts and the farty parts. And the snot parts.
[1:58 PM]
marlen yep @anna lol
[1:58 PM]
kimk Yes, for me too, all my same points are here at the farm, I knew as knowledge and information that it would happen, then I experienced it happening lol!
[1:58 PM]
anna lol @kimk
[1:58 PM]
joekou yes the farm is a specific place with specific qualities - that is a fact. but it still comes down to who we are. i still have to decide to make the best of it for/as me despite being here with all the support
[1:58 PM]
anna i remember thinking when I was on the farm: "I'm so glad I got rid of my family" muahahha - little did I know that they were alive and well.... inside my mind.
[1:59 PM]
kimk lol @anna!
[1:59 PM]
joekou it is cool that the people here won't balk at the things we need to go through sometimes in order to face ourselves, yet at the same time are always here to help and support and listen when we ask
lol @anna
[2:00 PM]
marlen yep and that can be extended to forums or any other spot for everyone else out there - on joe's point
so see you guys! thank you for being here and sharing
[2:00 PM]
joanajesus my fears came to the farm with me too - it was by the time the Fear & Phobias series began and it was a turning point in my journey -- it's a symbiotic process: the farm and us, and I would say the world outside and the world inside
[2:00 PM]
kimk thanks everyone. THANK YOU joe!
[2:00 PM]
joekou thank you all
you magnificent, glorious meatbags. i love you with the obsidian void that was my heart
[2:01 PM]
marlen lolol
[2:01 PM]
kimk lol!
[2:01 PM]
anna Freaks till we die.
[2:01 PM]
kimk glorious meatbags lol!
[2:01 PM]
anna Bye!
[2:01 PM]
kimk bye everyone
[2:01 PM]
joekou an inside joke to when bernard would call us meatbags
[2:02 PM]
valentin.rozman lol
Thanks all and bye :slightly_smiling_face:



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