Storytelling and Process - 23 February 2018

Marlen
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Storytelling and Process - 23 February 2018

Postby Marlen » 23 Feb 2018, 22:13

joekou Open floor tonight with Joe - Got a topic, question, or something to share? Let's hear it. we begin 5 minutes past the hour
[12:58 PM]
joekou set the channel topic: Open floor tonight with Joe - Got a topic, question, or something to share? Let's hear it. we begin 5 minutes past the hour
[1:01 PM]
marlen hey joe you could share more about the storytelling point that was an option last wednesday for example
[1:01 PM]
valentin.rozman Hi all :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:02 PM]
lysander Good evening
[1:02 PM]
kims Hi all
[1:03 PM]
anna Social media and whether it is best to disconnect from it entirely (especially with kids) because it's 'ruining our lives' lol - or how to create a healthy balance. #persistanttopic
[1:03 PM]
kims Anna how you feeling ?
[1:03 PM]
randy complaining... or, the pattern of complaining. looking at the things our mind brings up to complain about and, how in relation to self, it's mostly to complain about consequences of our own decisions.... but, I'm good with joe's storytelling point as well...
[1:04 PM]
anna Oh I'm feeling much better today @kims thank you! It was only a mild case of food poisoning it seems, but man it wasn't fun while it lasted. @viktorpersson reacted too but he managed to get the food out of his system before he got sick.
[1:04 PM]
tormod Glad to hear that @anna
[1:05 PM]
lysander Nothing in particular to share about issues atm, but I do want to (re)emphasize how friggin awesome mindmapping is, in terms of life-management and, yes, process (with mapping out points and getting clarity on them)
[1:05 PM]
kims Oh that’s good - yes it’s no fun I had it for 48 hours but takes a good week to feel completely normal again and eat normally I found
[1:05 PM]
valentin.rozman My tooth pain is also gone and the swell on my cheek is no more.
[1:05 PM]
joekou we have 'storytelling' and process, social media and whether it's effect on children/how to create balance, the pattern of complaining
[1:05 PM]
kims Cool @valentin.rozman
Story telling
[1:05 PM]
joekou voting to commence soon if anyone wants to throw in a topic
[1:06 PM]
tormod Interesting @lysander have you any blogs on that
[1:06 PM]
marlen storytelling!
[1:06 PM]
anna lol @lysander I am facing a complex point I need to decide on (like thinking lots of chess moves ahead) and @viktorpersson and I was just talking about how I need to do a mindmap of sorts to sort the information out.
[1:06 PM]
joekou 1 - storytelling
2 - media and children
3 - the pattern of complaining
[1:06 PM]
lysander not yet @tormod, will be coming up at some point for sure!
[1:06 PM]
randy acv and honey mixture good for that @anna
[1:06 PM]
kims 1
[1:06 PM]
marlen 1
[1:06 PM]
anna Thanks @randy - now I know!
2
[1:06 PM]
lysander @anna, def check out mindmapping - try out freemind, very easy to use and very effective
[1:07 PM]
randy 1 - I'd like to hear more on the storytelling
[1:07 PM]
anna I will keep suggesting the social media topic until you chat about it with me. consider yourself warned. lol
[1:07 PM]
valentin.rozman 1
[1:07 PM]
tormod Cool @lysander any sited / YouTube You recomend on mind mapping ?
[1:07 PM]
randy hahaha @anna
[1:07 PM]
kims :joy:anna
[1:07 PM]
tormod Sites *
[1:07 PM]
anna Kidding. I've asked Sunette to do a recording about it as well. That will suffice.
lol I was considering a good old fashion pen and paper mind mapping @lysander lol
[1:07 PM]
randy love those interview requests anna
[1:07 PM]
joekou i count 4 so far for storytelling - so we'll go with that for tonight
[1:08 PM]
randy done
[1:08 PM]
marlen yay go for it
[1:08 PM]
gotaja hey
[1:08 PM]
joekou set the channel topic: Storytelling and Process
[1:08 PM]
gotaja just got in
[1:08 PM]
lysander the proggie is called 'Freemind' - and a simple tutorial is found at: http://toncar.cz/Tutorials/MindMaps/get ... emind.html
toncar.cz
Getting Started with Freemind
Getting Started with Freemind, a tutorial for novice users.
[1:08 PM]
gotaja oh cool topic
[1:08 PM]
tormod Gracias @lysander
[1:08 PM]
ingrids Hi
[1:08 PM]
lysander Mindmapping is in a way a stroytelling form
lol
De nada @tormod
[1:09 PM]
rebeccadalmas Yes , a story is a timeline of events !
[1:09 PM]
joekou so this is something that has been with me for most of my life - something i have always been drawn to in one way or another - whether it was me writing little comic books as a child, to doing improv comedy shows and theater in my young adult life, and doing vlogs and DIP buddying later on - a central part for me has always been 'storytelling'
[1:09 PM]
tormod Hi Ingrid
[1:09 PM]
rebeccadalmas Relationships
[1:10 PM]
joekou but first let me explain what i mean by 'storytelling'
[1:10 PM]
viktorpersson 2
[1:10 PM]
joekou i am not talking about reading a story - or performing something
i have come to realize that storytelling is something we have done for ages - it is how humanity passes along wisdom, knowledge, experience, and PRINCIPLES
[1:10 PM]
randy discussing process issues ends up involving or "being" storytelling in some ways
[1:11 PM]
joekou through stories - whether they are true or not, we share human experiences but most importantly we share OURSELVES and the meaning of those experiences
it is the difference between telling somebody they shouldn't do something, versus sharing with them an experience of why they shouldn't do it
[1:12 PM]
randy indeed @joekou
[1:12 PM]
joekou in my life i have had many ups and downs and loooooong periods of emotional pains and traumas and darkness - all of which i was ashamed of for a long time
i regarded myself as a failed destonian
[1:12 PM]
lysander ouch
[1:12 PM]
joekou i regarded myself as 'that one destonian that just isn't getting it'
and i allowed that shame to keep me from doing the very thing that i have always been naturally good at - telling my story
[1:13 PM]
tormod Been there me to - not plesant
[1:13 PM]
joekou i now realize that storytelling isn't about ego or fame or validation - it is an important duty that all of us have
[1:13 PM]
anna Yay
[1:13 PM]
ingrids or 'isn't making it' @joekou? this is what comes up in me, as B mentioned now and then 'not many will make it this lifetime - or something like that
[1:13 PM]
joekou it is to share ourselves - honestly, brutally - because there are people in the world who likely feel exactly as we do - have the same pains and fears and anxieties - but DO NOT SPEAK UP because they feel alone
[1:14 PM]
anna lol man. I constantly think I'm the only one not getting it. Sharing myself helps me to see that I am more than what I think.
[1:14 PM]
joekou @ingrids for me i simply gave up on myself has having 'hope' for any kind of future or purpose
[1:14 PM]
kims I have noticed how the whole experience of the Desteni group is now more a more organic sharing of information and less suppression and being more real
[1:15 PM]
kimk Hey all - just joined and caught up. Cool topic!
[1:15 PM]
joekou now - what recently shifted in my in a very big way was - i realized that throughout the years even during the times when i was totally depressed and wanting to give up - i would STILL tell my story to others - and even during times when i felt most lost, i continued to see the potential and the 'life' within my trainees - and in sharing my personal experiences and stories i was able to help them avoid so many of the mistakes and pitfalls i made
[1:15 PM]
kims We are moving this point on now
[1:15 PM]
valentin.rozman That is what blogging and vlogging is all about
[1:16 PM]
randy indeed val
[1:16 PM]
joekou and i am not at a point of realizing - i would not have been able to help people as well as i am able to now had i not in my own way gone through what i did
and most importantly - i now am more and more embracing my ability as a 'storyteller' - in a way that i see is best for all
[1:16 PM]
ida now* you mean @joekou?
[1:17 PM]
joekou in the past i would give up and not upload or share anything because i was such a perfectionist and also i was still ashamed of my fallings and weaknesses
[1:17 PM]
kims I have learned and been so inspired through doing my readings for thousands over the years and it was a big wake up call that we all go through similar points in different ways
[1:17 PM]
joekou *now
yes lol Ida thanks for pointing out the typo
so - i share this story because i was really on the verge of wanting to walk away from it all
[1:18 PM]
rebeccadalmas Indirect sharing , allowing self discovery .
[1:18 PM]
joekou i was a stone's throw away from really deciding "joe, you should just disappear and not try to be an example for anyone because you're messing up so bad"
[1:18 PM]
viktorpersson I thought about that today – a colleague asked me how I was doing when I got to work – and I wanted to say not too well because Anna and I had a conflict during the morning – and I said I was okay. I was looking at that because if I would have answered it honestly, I would have shared all that, however I do not feel comfortable in doing that in the office. I remember there was a interview on this topic on Eqafe some time ago – about being open when receiving that question.
[1:18 PM]
gotaja hmm... super interesting topic, just managed to catch up
[1:18 PM]
valentin.rozman Perfectionism is also the point that have been facing and it took years before I was comfortable with sharing my first vlog ever.
[1:18 PM]
kims Glad you stayed the course Joe
[1:19 PM]
joekou so what does storytelling have to do with this? - allow me to tell the story :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:19 PM]
kims You will find now you have turned a corner it will be easier to walk through of it comes up again
[1:19 PM]
ida lol
[1:19 PM]
kims IF
[1:19 PM]
kimk Joe - this story is already very intriguing!
[1:19 PM]
gotaja What has been opening up with me about story telling in a big way is that I used to talk to people without considering where they were. This is gradually shifting towards speaking, I mean really speaking, to another -- who the other is. Not being blunt or forceful and allowing them to get what needs to be understood on their own. I am more to help out and enjoy the ride with the other person than to "TELL HOW EVERYTHING IS!" :smile:
[1:20 PM]
anna One point that I would suggest as a solution to this @joekou - that I've found very supportive for myself (it may be what you're already doing) is to deliberately expose the flaws and weaknessess of myself, and deliberately stand by myself in them. I've found that to be a cool anti-dote, to the perfectionism.
[1:20 PM]
joekou what makes a good story? you will find almost without fail that any "GOOD" story - any story that stays with you and makes an impact on you in some way no matter how small - is a story that gives you wisdom - that shows you something - that imparts purpose or reason
@anna yes in a way i am now also learning to convert my weakness into strength
[1:20 PM]
tormod @joekou your storry here is sound
[1:20 PM]
randy cool @gotaja
[1:20 PM]
anna Yep the transformation story, from weakness to strength.
[1:20 PM]
dan Thanks for sharing Joe
[1:21 PM]
anna It has some name... in story telling theory.
[1:21 PM]
joekou so for me - i took at look at my own story - the story of JOE - and i asked myself - so far this is a really shitty story. there is no 'lesson', there is no 'value'
[1:21 PM]
kimk oral history? @anna
[1:21 PM]
joekou if my story were broken down into the 3 acts of a play or a movie - at what point will i, the 'lead character', get the 'lesson' here?
and in asking that question i realized something else - in all good stories the main character transforms, changes, and grows - but only after pain and struggle and only after do they get to a point of 'resolution'
[1:22 PM]
kimk Yes, true joe
[1:22 PM]
anna There is this theory of how stories are best told @kims - (I know it only from fairy tales) where there always has to be this point where the protagonist almost fails or has a point of no return, to transform and succeed in the end, and without that point the story isn't interesting.
[1:23 PM]
kimk ah, ok @anna
[1:23 PM]
joekou and in this way i looked again at my life - at my mistakes, at my seemingly many falls in life and in process and in relationships - and i no longer saw them as shameful mistakes but stepping stones that made me the person i am today - without which i would NOT have the courage i have now to keep going - because i have too much invested in this story lol - i have come too far to give up.
and that is what i would want for everyone here - to impart upon you who i consider my extended chosen family - that your story is never ending when it is darkest.
[1:24 PM]
randy many times it's at the end of the 3rd act @joekou... when it's too late to change... cool you have learned the lesson in the 2nd act, and the 3rd will be you living the change
[1:24 PM]
joekou and for me it now comes full circle and i think back to how bernard so wisely planted the seed in me when he said 'joe you are a showman'
[1:25 PM]
ingrids Interesting you saw your story as many mistakes as I looked at it as quite successful to where you had come already @joekou but from myself I easily tend to see it as well as 'not really getting there'
[1:25 PM]
joekou @randy lol YES - i get to enjoy the transformation in the third act - and what i find is that the third act is not final. it is simply another act before a brand new act 1
[1:26 PM]
lysander you gotta get your act straight
[1:26 PM]
ingrids So it seems like we - or I at least - am more hard on myself than on others in this
[1:26 PM]
randy yep, it too is a time loop....
[1:26 PM]
joekou so - what is YOUR story looking like? are you really at the end of the book when you face the darkness, or are you actually at the point where the change happens and the story really gets interesting? you are the storyteller
[1:26 PM]
anna Yes exactly @ingrids - that's what I mentioned as well on the previous chat, that I think that my weaknessess/process is the WORST of all, but if everyone thinks that way lol....
[1:27 PM]
randy we All do it to ourselves @ingrids 4
[1:27 PM]
ida yes or many 1,2,3 acts going on same time on different levels
[1:27 PM]
joekou @ingrids nope - we are all equally bullheaded in believing we are the only ones fucking up as bad as we are
[1:27 PM]
randy hehehehe... indeed @ida
[1:27 PM]
ingrids lol yes @anna
[1:27 PM]
joekou @ida yes
[1:28 PM]
marlen yep, a common one ingrid that serves also as a self sabotage point 'I got it worse' instead of seeing how that's just how the mind works, we blow things out of proportion all the time
[1:28 PM]
ingrids yes @joekou @randy
[1:28 PM]
anna I remember that Bernard once asked me if I had ever considered that there was a reason that I'd walked everything I had (and that I was judging myself for). I still ponder about that from time to time, and still haven't entirely gotten it, but I know I will one day. And him saying it, helped.
[1:28 PM]
joekou the final bit about storytelling that i would like to share - is that what makes a good story is also in HOW you tell it. and in the case of process - how we TELL OURSELVES the story of OURSELVES
are you TELLING yourself you are fucking up and bad and should be ashamed?
[1:29 PM]
ida and it can seem quite messy and all over the place (about the acts going on simultaneously)
[1:29 PM]
anna Yes @joekou - the fact as well that it IS a story, and as such there's a NARRATION - that what we're telling/showing ourselves isn't the end-all-be-all objective truth of things, but a version.
[1:29 PM]
ingrids yes @marlen cool to indeed seeing it as serving a self-sabotage point
[1:29 PM]
joekou that's fine - but know that this kind of thing will NOT be satisfying unless your story goes into a CHANGE - when the bad stuff becomes a lesson and fuel for growth
[1:29 PM]
marlen yeah what comes up is also letting go of the idea of 'happy endings' as such, but more sharing the transforming process, the learning process to get back to point of stability and direction
[1:30 PM]
ingrids ah yes @marlen letting go of the idea of happy ending, cool
[1:30 PM]
joekou you can tell yourself the same story over and over and only focus on the hardship and the pain and the weakness and losing hope - but it will make for a very bitter life with little redeeming value if that is all you create
[1:30 PM]
randy that is so key, @joekou What are we telling our Self is our story? Are we judging, comparing, etc..?
[1:31 PM]
anna Yes. "Is this all I want out of life?" "Do I want my life only to be this?"
[1:31 PM]
joekou @marlen YES - it is not about creating a happy ending - it is about the foundation of storytelling - which is about growth, of wisdom, of transformation
[1:31 PM]
lysander If you tell yourself you're fucked and bad and all - then that is what you will become. A self-fulfilling prophecy is what we live as our beliefs that have been (/will be) made real.
[1:31 PM]
ida @marlen yes agree
[1:31 PM]
joekou it is not to now tell yourself a nicer story
[1:31 PM]
kimk @joekou - this is a really cool new perspective we can use to strengthen our self-directive principle and focus our self-creation, and do it in a way where our sharing is more accessible to those around us. This is a great 'discovery' here!
[1:31 PM]
randy indeed @lysander
[1:31 PM]
joekou it is to get REAL with the story you are telling and NOT be afraid to go into those dark moments - because that is when you CHANGE
[1:32 PM]
marlen yep exactly joe, and how by the fact that we are alive, we go through these things, it is very limited how we all buy into the idea of having it all fine and nice
[1:32 PM]
joekou and on the other side of it - like any good story worth telling, the hero's journey was WORTH IT despite the challenges and pain and hardships and loss that often happens - the growth at the other side was worth it
[1:32 PM]
viktorpersson Totally agree
[1:33 PM]
randy exactly!
[1:33 PM]
marlen someone that's talking a lot about this same process is Jordan Peterson as well on the 'hero story' and very much focusing on this suffering/transformation process, been checking him out a lot, I agree with most of what he says so I recommend him
[1:33 PM]
joekou so - coming from someone who was on the verge of a potentially manic depression not so long ago - storytelling within process saved my life, rekindled my fondness and respect for storytelling, and is now opening up a brand new chapter in a book that i had recently thought was done
and why it is so important as well for us to share ourselves even when we feel the worst
[1:34 PM]
randy Thanks for the recommendation @marlen
[1:34 PM]
joekou because that story is WORTH telling - because it shows people they are NOT alone
[1:35 PM]
marlen yeah it's also part of our moral responsibility as well by the fact that we share the world with many like us
[1:35 PM]
lysander True Joe, Jesus Christ also had to hang on a tree before he entered 'the kingdom of heaven'. So did Odin by the way. And those made darn fine stories. I mean, people still believe it today!
:stuck_out_tongue:
[1:35 PM]
joekou so - don't be afraid of the darkness and the challenges that defeat you at the moment. dare to face your story and dare to share it and hear the stories of others
and for anu's sake people - stop waiting and stop trying to take it all on yourself. goddamit reach out and ask for someone to talk to even if you just need to vent
[1:36 PM]
anna I totally agree
[1:36 PM]
ida agree
[1:36 PM]
anna And glad you finally did too @joekou!
[1:36 PM]
dan +1
[1:36 PM]
marlen yep sharing about it breaks the mind-luring spell
[1:36 PM]
joekou yes marlen it is a spell
[1:36 PM]
kimk yes, agreed!
[1:36 PM]
joekou it is spelled in words
and words are used most effectively in stories
see what i did there/
?
[1:36 PM]
ida lol
[1:37 PM]
kimk lol joe!
[1:37 PM]
anna How about we all share a deep dark weakness (remember it's the public chat though in case you dn't want it public) and then at the same time, a point of transformation and resolution of that?
[1:37 PM]
joekou dispell the notion that we are lost or alone or somehow beyond redemption or hope or worth - by de-spelling the words of the story we have been telling and start telling a better story
what is the change and transformation your character needs in order to make yours a good story?
[1:38 PM]
ida lol when you suggested this @anna I went back into my seat, pulling my shoulders together lol
[1:38 PM]
marlen yep very true, it's in our hands to make it a good story to tell lol
[1:39 PM]
joekou also - how can you turn the bitterness, the pain, the anger, the fear into strengths instead of weaknesses
[1:39 PM]
anna Ok now you have to go @ida
lol
[1:39 PM]
joekou knowing that they will never disappear - but who you are and how you will tell the story of your past can change
[1:39 PM]
ida hihihih
[1:40 PM]
marlen 'will never disappear'? you mean as something you've experienced in the past or you mean it will forever keep coming up?
[1:40 PM]
randy agreed.... we're alone in our process, yes, as we do it by ourselves. But, we're not Alone... We can ask for support and assistance from anyone. Great question to ask self, @joekou "what is the change and transformation your character needs in order to make yours a good story?"
[1:40 PM]
tormod Mind will tell me dont talk to strangers / while my heart will tell me to open up to new people
[1:41 PM]
joekou i fear that i will always be alone. that i will never experience intimacy or care or affection - which are things i deeply long for - and this has been one of my greatest weaknesses because i go searching for it in my career, in relationships, in sex - everywhere but within myself.
[1:41 PM]
anna I can share that one of my deep dark weaknessess is that I've been existing in a relationship with my body where I've punished it and neglected it and not taken good care of it at all. It has been one of the most difficult points for me to change in process, and something that I've been incredibly ashamed of because it seems so easy for others, something I 'should' know how to do. But I also understand how I've created it to be this way. And one of the ways I'm transforming this is by taking an interest in perfecting myself in cooking - and really expanding my skills. So it isn't resolved entirely - but I am working on it.
[1:41 PM]
kimk I was excited about Anna's suggestion, but all my shareable ones are less interesting. Right now I am walking a process of clearing out my 'demons' - all the self-judgments and guilts and anything I can find dating back to early childhood that I had avoided i writing due to not wanting to face. I am now pulling it out and facing it with self-forgiveness
[1:42 PM]
valentin.rozman Cool @kimk
[1:42 PM]
randy very cool kimk
[1:44 PM]
tormod Good call @kimk the heavens process is here : we only has to walk it
[1:44 PM]
anna Another way I'm also working on this, is by asking people who have a more healthy relationship with their bodies, how they do it. That is also very supportive.
[1:45 PM]
tormod You can also ask me then @anna :hugging_face:
[1:45 PM]
marlen Prior to joe's sharing in the interviews, I was also feeling quite stuck in judgment of my own decisions and fearing that I'm making a 'huge' mistake, but it has definitely been supportive to realize how much it is defined by an idea we have of ourselves - what we discussed last chat - and how no matter how difficult the situation is, it's actually a series of judgments and beliefs I have to walk through, which I am doing at the moment and being able to share about it is a start to as i said earlier 'dispell' its 'hold' over me
[1:45 PM]
kimk One of the funny ones that came up was stealing coins from my mom's purse to go buy candy - seems like a small crime, but the guilt and remorse I felt about it back then was big lol! It influenced my self-definition and self-relationship, and I was STILL hanging on to it judging it as 'not a big deal'. But it was a big deal to me back then, and that is what stuck with me. The SF that came from it was really cool too.
[1:45 PM]
anna sure @tormod :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:46 PM]
ida yes @joekou somehow I suspect that is a deep core issue in all of us. some just are in a position where the fear is more easily hidden.. but at least I can relate lots
[1:46 PM]
joekou i hold on to grudges - i have a hard time letting go of people that i experience as hurting me or betraying me - because i put so much of myself into my relationships with others especially when i allow someone into my inner circle - and i make others responsible for giving me the love, care, and affection i felt i was denied since childhood - for which i also felt deeply 'betrayed'. i realize now that the love and affection i would like to receive from another must first exist in me, and that i need to stop holding people hostage to my own insecurities.
[1:46 PM]
anna Good one @joekou
[1:46 PM]
kimk well said joe
[1:47 PM]
lysander Good one Joe
[1:47 PM]
marlen yep it also becomes a way to blame others instead of focusing on ourselves as the source of solution
[1:47 PM]
randy that's a biggie joekou
[1:48 PM]
tormod Possessed by love
[1:48 PM]
marlen plus, it also creates dependency if you do find someone that gives you 'all of that' and haven't lived it as yourself, hence the 'holding on to' the person, so that's another reason to be the source ourselves too
[1:48 PM]
randy it's that total and complete acceptance of everything Self...
[1:49 PM]
joekou and also to understand that sometimes, things really are beyond our control or understanding at the moment. somethings things happen for reasons we will not comprehend until much later - and that here i must take responsibility for my part in the creation of these events - but to at the same time LET GO of the things that truly were beyond my scope and not go into blame or bitterness toward others for not 'doing their part'.
[1:49 PM]
ingrids I start seeing more and more how the deep hidden layers are influencing my decisions and then these aspects come forward, where in I look at it as 'mistakes' but it is more the deeper flaws, insecurities, lacks etc that are coming to the surface
[1:50 PM]
joekou cool @ingrids - i find that more and more i am also seeing my deeper, suppressed stuff coming up. but now i am recognizing it better and also have more awareness to deal with it
[1:50 PM]
anna The thing with my body issue, what I've been mostly judging myself for and ashamed of is that I also have a tendency of neglecting Lora's body. So it's something I've had to push - set alarms for giving her vitamins for example. And in this, I've found myself categorizing myself as "one of those bad moms" (like my own mom) which was the LAST thing on earth I ever wanted or expected myself to be for my child (failing my own expectations). But also in here realizing that it is impossible for me to be a perfect mom - and I've looked down on moms that I actually know understand. I understand how it is impossible to keep our weaknessess from affecting how we are with our children - which makes it even more important to sort oneself out even BEFORE having children, as well as during - which is then something I'm also making my life purpose to assist with and spearhead changing.
Yes @ingrids
[1:52 PM]
joekou awesome @anna - and within this you may find that those weaknesses were actually strengths that were simply 'warped' and not developed correctly
[1:52 PM]
anna *now understand
lol yes I'm still waiting to find out about that @joekou
[1:52 PM]
marlen also reminds me of how w are facing our 'worst fears' so to speak and seeing how it isn't as 'bad' as we feared it and we can actually use it to better ourselves
[1:53 PM]
randy yes @marlen... and it's never as bad as we had made it out to be in our mind....
[1:53 PM]
kimk yes @marlen, the mind usually makes it SOOOO much worse than it actually is in fact
[1:53 PM]
marlen yep!
[1:53 PM]
joekou @anna i'm certain you will. your story is still going
[1:53 PM]
anna but for sure, if I am to support other parents, I can't walk around judging them and live in an ivory tower of perfection lol - so had to get down from that thing, and into reality - so that I can embrace ALL parents and stand with them.
ALL parents and all of me lol
[1:54 PM]
joekou this is the year when we really start facing our deepest demons - which has been explained in a few recordings now
[1:54 PM]
ingrids and I often remind myself as what you mentioned before @anna how for example choosing your 'career' and then go for it, so not too much making it about 'what you choose' but more what you make of it, as I also see related within myself as a fear of missing out (as others also mentioned here before) and then not really stepping in, when only when stepping in, the opportunities and potential will be able to open up
[1:54 PM]
joekou this IS the moment in your story when things get bleak and challenging and the hero loses hope for a moment only to find that this is where it all can start to turn around
[1:54 PM]
valentin.rozman I consider my business product also as sort of a child and am making sure that it is best taken care of and that will serve the world well :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:54 PM]
anna Absolutely @ingrids
[1:54 PM]
ingrids so that is more what I am walking through and moving myself towards at the moment
[1:55 PM]
randy very cool @ingrids
[1:55 PM]
joekou so that was my sharing of storytelling and how embracing storytelling and myself as a storyteller saved my life - with the help of many others
[1:56 PM]
tormod Nice going @ingrids - cheers !
[1:56 PM]
joekou may it be a story that reminds you to tell better stories of yourselves as well
[1:56 PM]
lysander Well, in line with this chat I want to come back to the mindmapping - as I just want to show how this mindmapping thing works awesomely well with process to get clarity on mind-systems. It's in a way a MAP that is concisely and specifically telling the story of you & your system. Within it, you can also find the solutions. So it's actually quite on-topic. Can I share this map on the lfchat channel so it isn't public but you can still see it, as an example?
[1:56 PM]
anna Yes please @lysander
[1:56 PM]
lysander Ok cool
[1:56 PM]
marlen awesome @joekou thanks a lot for sharing and opening up, certainly supportive :slightly_smiling_face:
[1:57 PM]
joekou @lysander go for it
[1:57 PM]
kimk @anna one thing that sticks out for me in what you said with "which makes it even more important to sort oneself out even BEFORE having children, as well as during" - it makes it sound like there is some point of 'being sorted out' that we can attain by a certain time, when process is a lifelong learning/changing process. It could be cool to define more what you mean by that? Maybe also better my understanding here.
[1:57 PM]
randy [email protected] Thanks for bringing up the topic. looking forward to your storytelling....
[1:58 PM]
lysander I put it there
[1:58 PM]
valentin.rozman Thanks @joekou and also others for sharing your story
[1:58 PM]
joekou thanks everyone
[1:58 PM]
marlen cool forpointing it out @kimk I also noticed something there, how I see it is a continuous process, it is kind of pointless to expect oneself to be done with 'facing it all' for the sake of being a parent, that adds to the ideal/limitation - my perspective, though as an outsider from parenting
[1:58 PM]
anna Oh I mean more that in the future it would be cool for people to be much more prepared before having children @kimk - not so much considering that they should be 'done' or 'complete' as that of course is kind of unrealistic. But I definitely have some weaknessess that would have been better for my child if I had sorted out before having her.
[1:58 PM]
ingrids I can relate to that point with the care-taking of animals @anna that I have walked through and that we also have walked together with Roos the quinea pig where in a 'apathy' and panic arise as soon as they become sick or ill
I mean, that you describe with Lora
[1:59 PM]
anna Ah yes @ingrids - I understand what you mean.
[1:59 PM]
joekou @anna you had your child precisely when you were meant to and not a moment sooner or later
[1:59 PM]
lysander Thanks guys
[1:59 PM]
gotaja awesome stuff... just read on the edge of my seat
[1:59 PM]
anna Hmm @joekou I'm not entirely on board with that notion lol. But I had her now and there's no changing that lol. And she'll face what she'll face either way. And that will be hers.
[2:00 PM]
joekou in a way she is precisely showing you the things you previously would have keep being afraid to face
[2:00 PM]
kimk cool @anna thanks!
[2:00 PM]
tormod Thanks all
[2:00 PM]
ingrids Thanks all
[2:00 PM]
marlen i agree with @joekou otherwise it's creating again a definition of what 'could have been a better time' and never satisfied with how things are
[2:01 PM]
randy cool chat, gang... thanks everyone for being here...
[2:01 PM]
joekou and creating the story of 'if only i had been a better human being i would have been a better mom' - which is not a cool character - UNLESS that character changes lol
[2:01 PM]
marlen yeah exactly
[2:01 PM]
joekou because here you are - a mother - no matter how much better you could have been you are here now and that i believe will matter more
[2:02 PM]
anna No that's not how I see it. But for example, we had a private interview telling us to walk through points when I was pregnant, that I then didn't walk. So - to me it's a very real point to consider, that I could have walked that, but I didn't.
[2:03 PM]
ingrids I see it as the most important thing for a parent to give an example of what self-honesty can be and within this; as I see what I would have wanted in a way, and then even bringing this back to self as that this is then all I actually want from myself - and not perse that there will be no mistakes
[2:03 PM]
marlen yep I also consider the social media point is related to that, to making a mistake/doing things wrong for children, more ingrained to what is right/correct, instead of learning from it as you live through it. But that's another topic.
[2:03 PM]
joekou yes but at the moment anna you are not yet releasing the guilt from that equation it seems
[2:03 PM]
randy another example of bringing it back to self... it's who you are Now - who you are within it - as a mother, that matters.
[2:03 PM]
marlen @anna can consider yes how you're holding yourself guilty/prisoner of 'what I didn't do' not forgiving yourself there and so creating more of a problem about it
[2:03 PM]
ingrids exactly @randy
[2:03 PM]
joekou i mean it is a real point - but the emotional and energy attachments are a sneaky and seem so justified
[2:04 PM]
marlen yep, indeed it's a justification there to debunk/look at
[2:04 PM]
anna Yes exactly @ingrids and @randy
I hear you @joekou and @marlen
[2:04 PM]
joekou and that guilt can only prolong the shame and what if and should have - and prevent you from being here, now, as you are in the best way you can now
ok - you've got it anna i will step off my soapbox now lol
[2:05 PM]
marlen what is a soapbox?
[2:05 PM]
ingrids lol
[2:05 PM]
joekou but if i can come back from being on the verge of suicide and feeling like i let existence down then so can you
[2:05 PM]
anna lol I'm not on the verge of suicide @joekou
[2:05 PM]
marlen talking about himself there
[2:05 PM]
joekou cool - that is exactly what i mean
lol
[2:06 PM]
ingrids thanks all, see you next time
[2:06 PM]
valentin.rozman Thanks all and bye :slightly_smiling_face:
[2:06 PM]
marlen bye guys, thanks again Joe
[2:06 PM]
joekou this guilt - i recognize it and i understand it and i would never try to tell you it isn't legitimate because i've been there so many times. but it does you no good and you KNOW you can be better without it
[2:06 PM]
randy that's an expression, @marlen, for when a person says their "piece" - a small platform, if you will...
[2:06 PM]
ida lol something slippery that you standing on ? @joekou on soapbox
[2:07 PM]
marlen ah thanks randy
[2:07 PM]
joekou soapbox is what people in 'olden times' would stand on to make public speeches or to minister to the masses
[2:08 PM]
lysander Makes sense
[2:08 PM]
anna Guilt is quite a pinnacle point of motherhood I've found.
[2:08 PM]
joekou lol yes it seems to come with the territory
[2:08 PM]
ida ahh ok... I thought it had something to do with it being slippery up there.. like you might be saying something people already know/dont want to hear or something like that.. and that makes it 'soapy/slippery' in a metaphorical sense @joekou
[2:09 PM]
joekou lol i suppose you can still see it that way but it wasn't the context i meant
[2:09 PM]
randy yep... parenthood brings with it many opportunities for guilt to rear its ugly head
lots of couldas and shouldas....
[2:11 PM]
joekou alright everyone - thanks for being here and hearing my story
and for sharing yours as well so openly
[2:11 PM]
randy Thanks @joekou and everyone...
[2:12 PM]
ida thanks for sharing @joekou I appreciate it, lots!
[2:12 PM]
joekou that is the spirit of real stortelling - sharing ourselves and our experiences so that all can learn
bye for now!
[2:12 PM]
ida bye bye



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