marlen set the channel topic: Open Floor Friday - Got a suggested topic? Share it! Or shall we dive with 'Fear of Not Enough'? Let's discuss and start 5 after the hour
marlen Hey guys! Shall we continue with the suggested topic for today as a continuation from last wednesday's cone "This "fear of not enough" - survival of the fittest fight that can come out in energy form inside self towards others"
Another suggestion I have is having a look at our own storytelling/writing process and how there can be a tendency to dive into self-censorship when considering the point of sharing it and in doing so, miss out the ability to be upfront, detailed and honest about what we want to write about and direct towards a solution - so we can look at how to walk that point through - this is also inspired by the storytelling path that Joe has been opening up
michelle That second point on storytelling is cool
marlen any other topic or suggestion, share it and we shall decide!
valentin.rozman Hi all
marlen yeah we can call it storytelling and self-censorship lol
joekou we are our own CIA, NSA, and DOJ when it comes to censoring ourselves
Klavdija Hiti Maybe is too soon for storytelling
garbrielle yeah, the second one is cool, also to brainstorm ways to make it authentic but also reach a bigger audience, like tips on how to do that, such as Michelles instagram or Gian's earth haven....what does it take - time wise, content creation, daily effort, ect....is my interest
joekou we are experts at it and we will deny it
randy indeed joekou
valentin.rozman I am just watching the documentary about Marlon Brando that also researches storytelling very much.
joekou because it is for our 'national security' to keep such secrets
randy yep, joekou
marlen yeah we can dive into that point joe exactly, what's 'in it' for us - apparently - to keep in those national security secrets lol
@garbrielle that's another topic in itself which is more related to marketing etc, but I'm seeing how the authenticity point and actually reaching people comes with first getting 'straight' within self about what one wants to share about, which starts with this point of identifying where we are not being genuine and authentic in our sharing, our our walking and the 'light' under which we prefer to keep ourselves beneath at times - if that makes sense lol
joekou one point i have been looking at is - there is a balance that has to be met between amount of content and the quality of content. sometimes we end up sacrificing way too much for one over the other. we end up waiting too long and almost never share or post anything. or we end up flooding our content but with very little connection to the audience in terms of the depth of what is shared
randy why is it that we fear opening "our story book" but, instead choose to share little snippets of ourselves, never revealing the "whole" story?
marlen yeah that's the point there @joekou as well, what 'reaches' people then comes from that point of standing/creating that authenticity within self, which is then what comes with sharing real supportive content that makes one's story/sharings relatable and supportive
so shall we dive into it then? Storytelling and Self-Censorship?
randy sure marlen
miranda Yes @marlen
marlen set the channel topic: Storytelling and Self-Censorship
valentin.rozman I have been censoring my subtle underlaying movement of anger and self-judgements quite a lot today. No more indulgence in any even small energy outburst!
marlen ok! so this is a continuation to the point that @joekou opened up about storytelling and something that I've been working on this week which has to do with getting to write about something that I had been deliberately sugar coating, not seeing 'straight in the eye' so to speak because I was focusing on 'what can I share that is supportive for others' but in that, compromising the very first step which was getting actually real, honest and raw with myself and my writing to see what exactly it is that could eventually be supportive to share as a supportive story/blog or material
lysander Hi all
randy is that suppression or censorship @valentin.rozman?
marlen So this opened up the point to see how I wandered around for some weeks with all of this information only in my head in a way that it started wearing me down, because a part of me wants to share the 'cool stuff' and realizations and whatnot, but another part of me was just not keen on opening up the actual negative stuff, the evil so to speak, all of those things that I said, did or didn't do that led to a consequence that I wasn't writing out in detail for myself first.
joekou it does require a feat of balance there @marlen - to not go into a point of not sharing anything at all until we resolve the point, versus writing something just to get it out there but not actually be able to stand by our words
Klavdija Hiti And you scare talking about the stuff, because you don't believe yourself and you don't enough honest to yourself.
valentin.rozman @randy I just realised that censorship was not the best choice of words.
randy I get that @valentin.rozman
marlen yep, there is that @joekou for sure but here also looking at how in my case I wasn't even 'daring' to name things as they are because of having a perception/idea of myself that didn't match what I had to admit about my story, my role in it all - that's how the self-censorship point came up where we are not willing to admit to ourselves certain things about what we've done/been and then, don't call it by its name so to speak
joekou yes - the first thing we have to get straight is our own story
marlen @valentin.rozman that's also another way of calling censorship, a suppression where we don't want to look at the actual cause and source of the experiences we are creating, and so we believe we can just 'breathe through it' or 'it will pass' but we don't acknowledge that there's an actual bottom to get to there
exactly, so this point of 'getting straight' with myself is the first point that I started looking at, and I found out that as joe was mentioning at the beginning, there was this underlying fear to 'call my actions by their name' and confront them as they were because! they didn't match the 'idea' I had of myself - which is more in a positive light or perceiving that I could not be 'that inconsiderate' or selfish for example
valentin.rozman Yes @marlen and @randy but I wanted to say that I looked into some points and directed myself to stop energetic reactions effectively.
joekou we have to get our own 'facts' straight - and be able to go into the places we fear and resist going - so that we can really see the full picture of what we created and what our lessons are - and this allows us to then tell that story from a place of 'authenticity' - where it is not so much that we have to tell everyone the nitty gritty details - but about the fact that we have indeed looked at it clearly, walked through our own pains, and can therefore truly share that experience for others who are facing similar points but haven't had the courage to look as deeply as we ahve
michelle I’m working on finding that balance between sharing my real self (the good, bad and ugly) but also showing what I am changing, and looking at. Such as today I shared on my social media a dark side of me in business, but that I am currently exploring how to live in dignity while being my own boss
marlen So I find this as a key point that we can share about, where and how we are 'kidding' ourselves with yes only censoring or continuing to suppress things, believing there's something to 'hold there' of value, where we hold these secrets to ourselves and believe that doing so is being 'in control' of the situation or 'on top' of things, but I've found that it is in fact the opposite: when we hide and suppress we actually are not defending anything real of ourselves, but only the ego parts that we have yet to understand and self forgive
joekou important to share that this is not about 'removing' or 'stopping' the things that are difficult or painful or cause shame or guilt to come up - it is about being able to face them directly and take responsibility instead of always trying to 'overcome' them or suppress them or pretend they aren't affecting us
valentin.rozman Because I noticed how I wanted things to happen quick and with perfection and when some delays occurred and plans had to be changed, I quickly became angry however I have been internalising such reactions and that resulted in the skin irritation.
marlen yep totally agree @joekou well said in terms of this first step of standing in our authenticity, looking straight into the point - especially when we resist admitting things to ourselves or calling things 'by their name' as the roles we played, the actions, the intents, etc.
randy yep, @marlen... the "sugar coating" you mentioned earlier
joekou lol yes a way i like to put it is - start with honesty. then self-honesty. many times we tend to skip the honesty part where we first start with admitting - at least to ourselves - that we have issues and problems and fears and nasty shit that we try very hard to keep buried
miranda I have to tell my life story in front of a group and I can see that it is easier for me to open up my points in writing and share it in my blogs. I am aware that I am limiting myself with compromising thoughts 'no, I can't share anything about sex' for instance. so, will look into that.
michelle yes, cool @joekou and I find we walk our Self Forgiveness by sharing who we were, what we went through and are working on through sharing our stories
joekou cool miranda - in all things we do have to consider what is practical - we do not live in a word that is ready for 'radical honesty' where we can say everything openly - but it is still an important process for us as the 'storyteller' to be able to go be clear on those stories for ourselves
marlen oh and also, discovering how in opening up these 'veiled' or suppressed aspects of myself, I saw that yes there's that tendency to want to turn them into the 'good side' for some reason, like make them look better for other reason or 'overcome' them when in fact, another aspect of walking through self-censorship is realizing that there is no 'light at the end of the tunnel' in the moment of facing the raw reality of ourselves - but, at the same time keeping in mind that as one admits this to oneself and writes it out to understand it and create the way through it, that's where the actual process of 'getting back to our authority' starts, so as to not be discouraged by what one discovers or sees 'face to face' about oneself
marlen yep that's a cool key there as well @joekou writing it out 'as is' in honesty-manner, so that we don't go trying to justify or clear-cut things to already 'jump into a conclusion' - writing the details is part of the process, of course, this to ourselves, as an unedited version of what we went through, experienced, saw, that's what's being supportive as first step
miranda Indeed @joekou I was once saying real things in a small group and I was being blamed as 'very negative'.
joekou it is kind of like how history books always have an agenda or a bias to them depending on where the books where written. it is not the real, complete story
randy have encountered that same thing miranda
marlen yep, I also see this as a first step as well to take on to oneself first, because it's also not needed to 'expose all the details' to the world as such, but it is a first step to take on to then be able to distill the story into a shareable supportive outcome
tormod indeed @miranda
randy yep @joekou, not too many mentions of genocide in the history books - unless it was happening in another country
marlen @randy yep most people might be on that mindset, but the trend is changing though, more and more voices that are getting popular are talking about confronting one's 'shadow' or 'monster' or the evil within in order to truly stand in that point of self-authority.
miranda Yes Marlen
tormod i am learning to, get real with myself when it comes to caring for myself. to be gentle and considerate, I have managed to break a rib in my chest, so now I am forced to be gentle and carefull
marlen and the interesting thing is that we know what is 'wearing us down' as these 'state secrets' that we don't want to open up or confront, so the next point would be to explore what is it that we are in fact defending or holding on in doing so?
joekou i remember i loved telling stories about myself and how i overcame things - but when i look now at the starting point - sure it was good to share but the problem was i wasn't actually sharing the full story. i was not authentic. i wanted to highlight and share only the positive outcomes and pretend i didn't struggle or have moments of darkness and spite and anger
marjo sorry to hear that Tormod, take care
tormod lol thanks @marjo
marlen @tormod take care!
randy ouch tormod.... yes, have to take it easy for a bit to let heal....
lysander Oww... Take it easy Tormod
joekou so in that regard i was abusing the role of storyteller - i was telling stories for MY benefit and not for those listening. i wanted to be seen as better. i wanted approval. i wanted acceptance. i wanted attention. all of that got in the way of me connecting on a much deeper and real level.
carlton Take it easy @tormod
tormod yea, learing the hard way... (i felt during skiing)
marlen @joekou yep that's a very relevant point there, where I can also see within myself that tendency to only focus on the good outcomes, the positive, the lesson learned only as a distilled version, but I skip the process - hence the process - as the steps walked through, the trial and errors, the hardship to face and open up and change these things, it becomes useless, because we don't share the 'how' we walked through it
randy cool example @joekou.... highlight the good stuff but keep the "dark" stuff hidden... can relate
marjo Can also relate @joekoe
miranda I have done that also
marlen so that's another set of aspects to look at there as reasons why we create this self-censorship as well: where we want to hold on to a 'better version' of ourselves in our heads, wanting approval, wanting to be seen as a good person, wanting attention, wanting success, wanting only to 'reach out to people'/get followers, but not really looking at the starting point of it all which is 'who am I' within what I am sharing - which in self-censorship arena it comes from an ego-starting point, so needs to be identified with 'what am I trying to hold on to or hide about myself?'
joekou i think about when i was in my lowest times - and listening to people's stories and the good things they would share. and i would be spiteful and say 'yeah, nice to be you. fuck off because you have no idea what life is like'. and while my spitefulness came from my own resentment and powerlessness - i did learn the importance of not only sharing the 'good' - but to share how we got to the good from the 'bad' and not shy away from that. because when people are really in the dark times - they need something REAL to connect with
i would love to see more people share stories of "i had a terrible day today - BUT i changed it by..." or "i was on the verge of giving up... BUT then..."
marlen so yep as joe shared, where we are not acknowledging the gift and opportunity we have to share valuable stories of support that can reach people out because we only share the glossy parts - I can totally see myself in this as well and am busy confronting it as well, which also makes it unrealistic, how did I get from a to b if I only share 'b' as the cool outcome?
joekou not that we always have to have such a dark, negative way to start a story lol - more sharing that we could do with more genuine sharing that isn't limited by our need for approval or fear of losing social respect
lysander Yeah. I remember a time where I was saying I wanted to see my 'dark stuff', and was actually quite cocky about it all. Like I pumped myself up to 'show I was ready for it'. But when I really had to face it... Not so cocky anymore lol. Yet, the best things came out of having to see what lurked in that 'dark' tough... 'When you hit rock bottom you have a solid place to start from' they say. And they say true.
marlen yep exactly, also realizing that in the current social media sphere, the 'negative effects' it has had on people is because of only getting to see all the good, happy times and not many share the actual reality of the struggles that are for the most part the majority in everyone's lives, so, balancing that out within sharing the struggle and how one is working through it is what makes things more real. Again, here I'm talking from a realization, not yet entirely practice in my case at the moment, but it's a start
miranda I find the 'how' questions very important in my life
joekou i dont know about you guys but this year has already had a theme of 'better get real with yourself before you sink into your own suppression'
randy got an example of that @miranda?
marlen yep, I've identified simply holding on to the idea that 'I could not be such a bad person' to do what I did, and so seeing it only through the eyes of good and bad and slashing an idea of myself, instead of rather opening it up to understand how I got to that point to then be able to walk the necessary process to see what can I learn from what I did and how do I move forward from it
marjo yes joekou I already have seen that
miranda How to get a healthy relationship? How to get through life? How to get real? I had many of these questions during my life
randy cool @miranda
marlen yeah @lysander that's another cool reminder, that we sometimes fear 'hitting' that bottom in what we are experiencing and fear opening it up, and yes it may be hard to admit, hard to step up from, but those are the points that genuinely take us back to a point of understanding and so direction within ourselves, where we regain our authority even if that means standing in the pit for a while, that's sort of embracing those aspects of ourselves that we didn't want to face
joekou how is a very empowering question
marlen yeah for sure @joekou and have read here and there how shame is one of the reasons why we suppress as well, where we'd like to just not have to become aware of the details 'again' of what we did or didn't do as we write them out for example, yet it is in doing so that the actual processing starts
Klavdija Hiti If you not enough Self.honest you can't write enough good story
tormod interesting @miranda i will take note of that how ! thanks
joekou yes - storytelling really is the same principle as mind constructs in this case
marjo I can so relate to that aspect of shame @marlen
randy indeed @miranda and @joekou... I recall a chat a long time ago where B talked about asking the "how" questions....
marlen yep and sometimes we only tell the structure of what happened and leave out all of the nitty gritty details that make the whole difference between 'getting real' with ourselves or merely telling a story for the sake of it
lysander Yes @marlen. And what I notice a lot is that when you are facing those intense reactions, fears etc., 'being in the pit', you are on the starting to SEE truthfully, and THUS also close to solutions (if you don't suppress or got into blame etc.). Those are the moments you have to pay close attention to what's going on - for you are handed a 'key' there.
miranda Cool @tormod
marlen @randy yep instead of 'why' which leads to knowledge and info and going in circles, because the how involves 'what can I do, what actions can I take, what can I learn to walk through it' etc.
yep agreed @lysanderalso cool reminder to 'own the creation' there and be aware of not shifting to blame, or justifying, or sugar coating, or changing words to appear better at 'someone's eyes' which are in fact only our own
tormod birth and death circle/cylous also has me figuring that i am - now being battered - dying and - saying "good bye" to some old junk within me, and greeting the new what ever that is.
lysander Right on Marlen
miranda Yes @marlen the how questions always leads me to actions and answers
joekou the most interesting thing i found so far is that many people have asked me 'how do i become a better speaker' or 'how do i stop sounding nervous', or 'how can i get more people to watch my vlogs or read my blogs or subscribe to me' - and my answer to all of this is - first you have to know what your own story is. and then tell that story. you have to get the ego out of the way and stop worrying about how much your audience likes you. focus rather on how authentic and genuine you are - so that when a person needs it the most they will find your words and be able to learn, grow, and potentially make better decisions
marlen For example I've seen how when writing things out, I tend to use words like 'perhaps I was wanting to do this' or 'maybe it is because this or that' but I step back and look straight - No, it wasn't a 'perhaps' or 'maybe', I know why I did it and so I rewrite the sentence to be straight about it
yep excellently said @joekou that's the key right there, getting the ego out of the way is the point here
lysander Agreed Joe, well said. It is a toughy though, in my experience as well.
joekou lol cool point marlen
marlen or also in the writing start shifting more about the cool things I am realizing about it all, while knowing that there are more 'deep points' to open up at the same time, so, I write them out to not 'lose them' as they come up, but then also directing myself to get to that 'other' nitty gritty point that may have opened up earlier, so as to not go deviating from it.
michelle cool @marlen taking no bullshit from yourself
joekou the minute we shift our focus to 'how can i get more views/readers/audience' - we already lose a lot of authenticity. but when we focus on being real, and sharing something that really comes from the depths of us - something that is clear - those almost always connect to people automatically and resonate much better.
randy That's IT @joekou... "distancing language" the maybes, perhaps, might have beens.... instead of getting/being Real and calling it what it is/was...
marlen yeah, where I see I'm already wanting to mask things, which in fact reflect how I walked through that whole point, very airy-fairy and not wanting to 'call things by their name' so to speak, so using more straight to the point sentences assist with getting to see the facts, and give it a straight name, and walk through whatever reactions that may open up, but usually it's way more settling to be real with ourselves than being 'floaty' about it, we only do it to ourselves
yes @joekou it's got to do with sharing substantial words, things one has genuinely walked through, seen, opened up and gotten through or are in the process of doing so, which then makes things more realistic. For example in my case I tend to have a 'moral pedestal' when it comes to sharing, as if I had to already give out the ultimate solution to it all, or my word and outcome had to 'be so' - therefore I'm seeing how I missed out the humbleness of sharing the detail of the problem, the experiences, the 'struggle' while at the same time yes directing it to a supportive outcome.
joekou what i am working on is ways to tell our stories like we are proper tour guides. we go to all the places and explain and show their significance - we take our tour group (our audience) through a little journey of understanding through some scary and perhaps dangerous places - but we can make sure to take them through safely because we know it so well - we know how to get OUT of the pit that we are showing them.
lysander And getting our thoughts/backchats out in clear-cut (self-honest) statements, like: "I am stupid" instead of: "I think I might be seen as not so smart". I.e. getting specific and 'statement-wise' about the point is what helped me a lot to get more clarity in it all.
marlen Another realization from this is how many times we want to hold on to the good/positive things in our lives, but it's not even possible to fully flourish with that if we have shit to sort out through within ourselves, so as joe shared as well, that unresolved stuff can bleed out into new points of creation and that's not cool
I'd add also then moving on to 'why' we become that @lysander an example is facing selfishness and not only saying 'I am selfish' but explaining how I got myself to that point and then what I could have considered to take the context/others into consideration, so that it also doesn't become a self-flagellation show so to speak, which is part of walking the story in self-honesty, not only the honesty part
joekou i may enjoy watching people who seem to have it all and wonder about how i might attain that kind of life and satisfaction - but i am reluctant to take advice from them if they seem to perpetually just 'get things right'.
at some point there is a disconnect
lysander True that @marlen - what I meant to say is that the raw truth of our backchat is often in clear, direct statements. From there we can explore deeper.
marlen yep, part of what got me to be here and be walking with the Desteni tools and all of the material is because it acknowledged all the shit that we usually would only fear talking about or deny, so that's the essence of self honesty 'self honesty is not nie or beautiful' - by bernard, but it is entirely the spot were we can truly start facing and so liberating ourselves, we tend to forget that facing that is the beginning of the actual liberation from limitations
any other self-censorship words or keys to be aware of that anyone has encountered when opening up these points?
joekou can you tell your story without flinching or backtracking if somebody calls you out on it
marlen maybe it starts with seeing a topic/thing that you see is 'lightening up' in your head as we open up this topic, something that we have been procrastinating to look at, that can be a starting point to get to it
joekou do you find yourself saying "oh but what i meant to say was...."
or do you find yourself changing the entire story so that you come out the winner again
can you say "yes, this is the story as i have lived it and as i currently understand it in the context of my life"
randy great questions to ask oneself @joekou
marlen yep also relevant points to be aware of, where we don't want to be seen as the opposite of the idea that we have of ourselves which is usually positive/good light etc.
ida well that could be because we see that we did not make ourselves clear enough and/or see that there is a misunderstanding ? @joekou or are you only talking about when doing it specifically to come out the winner
marlen Also, some physical crossreferences to know when this self-censorship might be happening: tiredness, heaviness, pressure in the eyes maybe? anyone has noticed this? A lowness in one's voice, like not being fully present or on the ground'
joekou and also - are you able to grow and adapt when new points come along, or do you stubbornly hold on to your previous version
@ida if it was a misunderstanding then you should have no problems or reactions explaining or telling it again
but if there is an instant need to 'correct' yourself or make sure the other person sees you positively, then that is a red flag
marlen yep we know when we talk them out if we are wanting to change words to make it sound better than it actually was/how it happened, so it's a self-awareness point too
lysander What I have noticed @marlen, in extremer cases, is like a severe sort of ticking behind the eyes, so much so I cannot look the other in the eye anymore while I feel a pressure in my 'third eye region'.
miranda "when we talk them out', what do you mean @marlen?
joekou like those moments where we say "yes i hear you but that is not what i meant - what i meant to say was...." but you are basing it on what you think the other person thinks is right and not your actual authentic perspective - which does not have to be 'right' or 'wrong'
marlen @miranda in the example joe shared when confronting someone else as we share our story, talking it out with someone and then changing the version
miranda Ah ok, thanks!
Great chat, thanks all
marlen interesting @lysander I can relate to the ticking, lol, for some time I didn't know what it was, but it was simply that I wasn't willing to see straight to the point, even if it was 'there all the time' now that I recall it. So that can be another thing to look out for
yep so, let's leave it up to here
lysander Can relate Marlen
marlen thanks for all the sharings and support, and questions to ask ourselves, thanks joe also for opening these points up
marjo Thanks everyone, bye
joekou so if i share a story about how i became 'comfortable' with certain aspects of a job i was working at which i previously thought were immoral, abusive, and illegal - a person can ask me "oh so you are saying those things are justifiable?" - it is my responsibility to share my authenticity - which is "no that isn't what i'm saying. i'm saying that things cannot always be understood from a lense of right or wrong because human beings and the lives we live are far more complex than that".
randy @marlen @lysander - good call on physical cross-reference(s)... something to look at
carlton Thanks all bye
miranda Thanks again @joekou
valentin.rozman Thanks all and bye
lysander BEWARE THE TICKING RANDY
joekou it would not be authentic if i said "oh no that is of course not acceptable! those things are wrong! i'm not a bad guy!"
marlen yep that can also be another topic there, the morality point and how to walk through it
randy hehehe ly
lysander Thanks all, bye!
marlen see you guys! take care
randy thanks for the chat all.... very cool points opened up.
@marlen @joekou - thanks for leading the way....
ida bye bye all