Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Share and ask your moments and experiences in random, unpredictable, sudden moments that happened to you - you'd like to understand. Whether it be during a discussion with someone and not understanding why certain thoughts / behaviours came up in you or another. Not understanding another's facial expression or even your own when looking in the mirror etc. So, this thread is dedicated to the everyday life moments we WONDER about but never ask.
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AnthonyF
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Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by AnthonyF »

Okay.
I did already post previously, but I was wondering something else also.
I know that all life is equal.
There was a fly in the house, well usually I'd kill it, but I got a tissue to just get a hold of it and let it go outside. I couldn't find it in the end.
And I telling my mother this because she was just going to spray it with fly-killing stuff.
Anyway, she brought up fleas...
Fleas. Is it okay to kill fleas.....? Obviously they are 'life' as well. But you know?
I don't want fleas to over run my dog. He has had fleas recently (and still does I think, dead ones anyway) but what am I meant to do, just let them run wild all over him?

Cheers!

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sylvia
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by sylvia »

Anthony, I've been there too, feeling really sorry for stepping on a snail or when we had a plaque of flies in the garage out in the countryside. The one principle that I use is: what is best for all.

When I'm here and aware of my surroundings I will not accidently step on a snail, so the feeling sorry was in reality a feeling of guilt.

When my garage windows were black of the amount of flies that came out, were born, that day in my garage I simply had to spray in order not to enter an endless cycle of flies in the garage. Here we moved into an old house that had been empty for many years and the insects had taken over. A lot of the insects I let them be only the plaques I've stopped.

You can explore, killing life even as small as insects, in your writings and SF, though only when you encounter these situations. When you're hypothetically speaking about fleas you're making an artificial reality in the mind and thinking about it as if it is real, in that case you can only correct the thinking/fear and not your actual action of killing life.

For dogs there are many options to avoid having parasites taking over. For my cats I use some extra yeast in their food to make their fur healthy and when there might be an outbreak of fleas I've got biological degradable lotion to treat the cats and the spots where the outbreak has occurs in the house. In 5 years I haven't had any fleas so far. So there is always common sense that helps you to find a way to apply the principle 'in the best interest for all'.

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AnthonyF
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by AnthonyF »

sylvia wrote:Anthony, I've been there too, feeling really sorry for stepping on a snail or when we had a plaque of flies in the garage out in the countryside. The one principle that I use is: what is best for all.

When I'm here and aware of my surroundings I will not accidently step on a snail, so the feeling sorry was in reality a feeling of guilt.

When my garage windows were black of the amount of flies that came out, were born, that day in my garage I simply had to spray in order not to enter an endless cycle of flies in the garage. Here we moved into an old house that had been empty for many years and the insects had taken over. A lot of the insects I let them be only the plaques I've stopped.

You can explore, killing life even as small as insects, in your writings and SF, though only when you encounter these situations. When you're hypothetically speaking about fleas you're making an artificial reality in the mind and thinking about it as if it is real, in that case you can only correct the thinking/fear and not your actual action of killing life.

For dogs there are many options to avoid having parasites taking over. For my cats I use some extra yeast in their food to make their fur healthy and when there might be an outbreak of fleas I've got biological degradable lotion to treat the cats and the spots where the outbreak has occurs in the house. In 5 years I haven't had any fleas so far. So there is always common sense that helps you to find a way to apply the principle 'in the best interest for all'.
Ah thank you so much Sylvia.
This is great help.
So if one explores all possible avenues beforehand (all of the flies in your garage for example) and can't come to a conclusion of moving them away, then the only possible/logical solution is to spray them.
Okay.
Cool.

I will look into what I can do to avoid parasites affecting my dog.
That's cool you've had none in 5 years with your cat!
I think it's because I recently moved house and there are dogs around my house in all directions.

Thanks again though.

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sylvia
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by sylvia »

As long as you can see all the insects/parasites events as "new" events every time again and you DO NOT ACT from a point of memory with all the emotions/feelings/fears attached to it. Which does not mean that there cannot be a pattern within the coming and going of the insects/parasites, that's something to investigate when it is 'here'.

I sprayed once for those flies and than I used these sticky strips one can hang from the ceiling and when the situation was normal/liveable again I didn't have to use anything anymore.

We have to co-exist on this earth with all life, so we better find ways to do so and not find ways to master the situations as the MASTER of life, we're all equal and one period.

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Ann
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by Ann »

It all depends on wether you have a choice in it or not.
A couple of flies wont be a problem, since we have Always had that and it never caused issues.
However swarms of flies can become a problem.

Stepping on bugs on accident, having bugs fly in your eyes... not much you can do about it.

Because if you think this through then yes you could for example isolate yourself completely, or kill yourself. But the killing will just go on without you. Life and death won't stop. So it is either be part of that, or die. And I doubt many people would choose the "die" option :P

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Bella
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by Bella »

I suppose one must be willing to walk the life of a bug or an insect and be killed in the same way... The life & death of animals is different to that of humans, as the awareness of animals to/as everything in their existence is much more than the limited human consciousness. I can see this more and more through the Animal reviews on eqafe, it's fascinating to say the least!
Also I suppose that if one kill an animal or insect to protect oneself from dying for instance, one then must take that gift of life that one has given to oneself and walk one's life in the service of life - otherwise protecting one's own life is meaningless and only a point of ego.
I realize there are so many dimensions and points to consider within this all, and there is so much we take for granted that we should really start asking the questions that will allow us to break through the limitations of our consciousness.
We have a long process ahead before we reach the point where no life requires to be killed for any reasons. This would be possible in a world/existence of absolute equilibrium, where all is equally aware of all, realizing the interconnectedness and interdependence of life/all, thus realizing and living a co-existence where no one is harmed / consumed / sacrificed.

I definitely recommend listening to the animal reviews, if one is able to. Some interviews are for free at eqafe, check it out.

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kim amourette
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by kim amourette »

Bella wrote:Also I suppose that if one kill an animal or insect to protect oneself from dying for instance, one then must take that gift of life that one has given to oneself and walk one's life in the service of life - otherwise protecting one's own life is meaningless and only a point of ego.
Cool point Bella!

We are here in this reality where beings are killed every moment, from the small to the big --- Buddhism has already proven that to waste time saying 'I'm sorry' to ever bug you squash or try to avoid squashing any, won't make a difference in how this world functions, it will not stop life being killed and destroyed.

So, here we have to look at what makes the most sense in the process of changing reality as a whole -- which first and foremost implies self-investigation through self-forgiveness, self-honesty and self-correction - as we, in this, free ourselves from any BELIEFS about what is 'right' or 'wrong', for instance 'killing a bug is wrong/bad' (which is what the whole Buddhist concept is based on - a belief), and get to a point of seeing what is in fact really going on here, what life really is in oneness and equality with who we are as life. Only then will we be able to in every moment actually do what is best for all beings.

As long as we act on BELIEF, which is basically based on the fear of 'doing/being bad/wrong', we will inevitably abuse life.

Kim

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Andrew
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by Andrew »

I would look at it from a practical perspective.
I had to exterminate some wasp nests this year because the co-existence of humans and wasps does not work, as someone could get stung and have a reaction. At this stage it is a matter of keeping things as practical as possible as we have created an existence where we are literally stepping all over each other and some life ends up under the foot of other life - Thus also keeping in mind that my decisions to eliminates something like insects (when simply not working within a particular environment) are done from the starting point that I am working towards a practical solution for this existence so that we can actually eventually co-exist.

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AnthonyF
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by AnthonyF »

Ann wrote:It all depends on wether you have a choice in it or not.
A couple of flies wont be a problem, since we have Always had that and it never caused issues.
However swarms of flies can become a problem.

Stepping on bugs on accident, having bugs fly in your eyes... not much you can do about it.

Because if you think this through then yes you could for example isolate yourself completely, or kill yourself. But the killing will just go on without you. Life and death won't stop. So it is either be part of that, or die. And I doubt many people would choose the "die" option :P
Hmm yes I see.
Choice, okay.
Well there is a few cans of insect-killing spray in my mother's house. I'd throw them all out, but it's not really my house lol.

That's true.
Yes definitely rather be apart of that!
Bella wrote:I suppose one must be willing to walk the life of a bug or an insect and be killed in the same way... The life & death of animals is different to that of humans, as the awareness of animals to/as everything in their existence is much more than the limited human consciousness. I can see this more and more through the Animal reviews on eqafe, it's fascinating to say the least!
Also I suppose that if one kill an animal or insect to protect oneself from dying for instance, one then must take that gift of life that one has given to oneself and walk one's life in the service of life - otherwise protecting one's own life is meaningless and only a point of ego.
I realize there are so many dimensions and points to consider within this all, and there is so much we take for granted that we should really start asking the questions that will allow us to break through the limitations of our consciousness.
We have a long process ahead before we reach the point where no life requires to be killed for any reasons. This would be possible in a world/existence of absolute equilibrium, where all is equally aware of all, realizing the interconnectedness and interdependence of life/all, thus realizing and living a co-existence where no one is harmed / consumed / sacrificed.

I definitely recommend listening to the animal reviews, if one is able to. Some interviews are for free at eqafe, check it out.
Wicked.
Cool, I'll check out the interviews, thank you!
kim amourette wrote:
Bella wrote:Also I suppose that if one kill an animal or insect to protect oneself from dying for instance, one then must take that gift of life that one has given to oneself and walk one's life in the service of life - otherwise protecting one's own life is meaningless and only a point of ego.
Cool point Bella!

We are here in this reality where beings are killed every moment, from the small to the big --- Buddhism has already proven that to waste time saying 'I'm sorry' to ever bug you squash or try to avoid squashing any, won't make a difference in how this world functions, it will not stop life being killed and destroyed.

So, here we have to look at what makes the most sense in the process of changing reality as a whole -- which first and foremost implies self-investigation through self-forgiveness, self-honesty and self-correction - as we, in this, free ourselves from any BELIEFS about what is 'right' or 'wrong', for instance 'killing a bug is wrong/bad' (which is what the whole Buddhist concept is based on - a belief), and get to a point of seeing what is in fact really going on here, what life really is in oneness and equality with who we are as life. Only then will we be able to in every moment actually do what is best for all beings.

As long as we act on BELIEF, which is basically based on the fear of 'doing/being bad/wrong', we will inevitably abuse life.

Kim
Cool.
I didn't think to look at it from a belief point of view.
Thanks.
Andrew wrote:I would look at it from a practical perspective.
I had to exterminate some wasp nests this year because the co-existence of humans and wasps does not work, as someone could get stung and have a reaction. At this stage it is a matter of keeping things as practical as possible as we have created an existence where we are literally stepping all over each other and some life ends up under the foot of other life - Thus also keeping in mind that my decisions to eliminates something like insects (when simply not working within a particular environment) are done from the starting point that I am working towards a practical solution for this existence so that we can actually eventually co-exist.
That's cool.
Good point.
Some things that we believe are incorrect have to be done/performed so that we can create a world where each being co-exists.

Matti Freeman
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Re: Is it okay to kill SOME life..?

Post by Matti Freeman »

We also kill vegetables and animals to eat them, kill germs when we wash our hands, kill millions of tiny organisms when we turn on the stove, etc. So, it's to look at things in the context of what is practical / necessary to facilitate effective living - such as killing pests if it is necessary - as we walk our process of stopping separation - which will take a long time still.

So, it's not that killing is 'wrong' -- it's to, as we do what must be done in the current reality of things, stand within the starting point of not accepting such an existence of ourselves, but to find practical solutions, which is what we're doing at Desteni

So my suggestion would be to investigate where / how you participate in an idea of 'morality' as defined by 'good and bad' / 'right and wrong' ---investigate where / how you started living the idea of morality, and to realize that with Self Honesty there is no Morality as 'right and wrong' -- because it's simply about what is going to produce a world that is best for all. Which is what people tend to miss with things like Money and Killing -- judging money as 'evil' and 'wrong' and within this avoiding it -- but within this not being Self Honest in seeing that to have a solution that is actually Best for All, we have to use money / use the system / work with what is here, but rather making Morality into a personality of Self Interest where one is wanting to 'feel' like a 'good person'

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