Article about democracy

Share and ask your moments and experiences in random, unpredictable, sudden moments that happened to you - you'd like to understand. Whether it be during a discussion with someone and not understanding why certain thoughts / behaviours came up in you or another. Not understanding another's facial expression or even your own when looking in the mirror etc. So, this thread is dedicated to the everyday life moments we WONDER about but never ask.
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Carrie
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby Carrie » 01 Aug 2016, 14:59

Hi again, Tom. Pleasure. Answering and responding here:
What's actually self-interest ? What is self intested in - whats self intersted best - (from the existential perspective?) - I think it must be whats best for all life. Is the real self-interest the same as whats best for all life? Considering self as part of all life.
Looking like that this quote looks cool when we drop words stop and instead
What's the common trend in decision-making basis could be better described as self-conceit as I translated in the end of the article. Existing in self-conceit prevents us from looking into practicality of common sense.
There was a short video animation posted to Facebook recently about Blame that asked the question, "Are You A Blamer?" I have found the YouTube link for you here. The woman speaking shows how, in a moment when things aren't going her way, she immediately goes to blame. It's automatic. The way to blame is a well-worn path that was created throughout time from the starting point of not wanting to take responsibility for self. This is one dimension of self-interest - how when something isn't going how we like, we usually project it outward, as though something has been done to us. Because of our fear of loss or doing something 'wrong', we often attempt to place the blame on another and within this, do not take responsibility for the moment or the events leading up to that moment.

I like the word 'self-conceit' that you have used. In the word, CONCEIT, we can see what we have been doing - conning, deceiving, conceding, abdicating, and not seeing ourselves. And I totally agree - when in self-conceit, we're not able to see things with practicality or common sense. However, for myself, the word can be retraced to self-interest and Free Will. I mean, why else would we be living in self-conceit? Because we can and we have seen in our minds that it benefits us.

Realizing this, wouldn't it make sense to simply stop oneself from going into it? When you have that moment in front of you and you're looking at how you're going to respond to it - what you're going to think, say, and/or act - and your mind presents you with the path of least resistance - what do you do? Do you go down the well-worn path that leads you to the same outcome or do you stop in your tracks? What is the solution for self-conceit? What is the plan for the next time it comes up? What will you do instead?
I would argue here that you have been decieving yourself, show me please 1 evidence that it has actually worked, meaning produced the results that are best for all life.
Interesting question to look at because when I see the world, the people in it, and how we're all existing - I see very little that works in a way that is best. Why would it? Very few people are actually changing at this stage. Yes, there's a growing awareness of how we have been existing but there is still going down that path of least resistance - the separation, projecting, blame, and all of the reactions that come with this. Some will stand up for themselves only when then see themselves as the victim - others will attempt to give up and say 'I don't care'. How is it that any idea with potential can be realized instead of demonized within this pattern of being? How would things be if we changed? How would Democracy exist? Would we accept the current form of Democrazy or would we redefine it? Give it a new way of being that supports everyone?



joe kou
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby joe kou » 01 Aug 2016, 18:39

Hi Tom - while I would look forward to a discussion on this let us have a look at the practicality of this form of exchange. It is difficult to really drill down to a deep, rich discussion if we are responding to so many individual points - each of which may open up additional dimensions. What tends to happen is that such exchanges go on for quite a while and becomes more an intellectual exercise or mental sparring than an actual communication and sharing, and often times the real spirit of exchange and discovery is lost in the noise of line by line rebuttals.

To perhaps assist with some of the questions you raise in response, know that my reply was not meant as a direct response to you personally - more a general sharing and reflection of myself in a moment after reading your article - so when I mention 'blaming others' i speak in the macrocosmic level and am not inferring that this is what you are doing.

I would suggest if you would like to understand more of the specifics of my perspective or feedback, rather let us focus on the principles and the starting points rather than a verbatim line by line cross analysis. Perhaps you can have a look to see what deeper questions are within you and begin from there, or perhaps share your own personal starting point in this article. who did you write this for? who were you/where were you within writing it?



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Carrie
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby Carrie » 01 Aug 2016, 20:05

Agree with Joe here. There's really no point in arguing limitations. It usually ends in the same way with Ego games, taking it personal, becoming angry and maybe frustrated - a long, unnecessary process that dances around the issues rather than working together to open them up, understand them, and see what can be done with them.



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Tom
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby Tom » 01 Aug 2016, 21:26

Ok, let's discuss:)

I wrote this for everyone, because I think everyone should get familiar with the points presented.

Gian, Joe, Carrie thank you for commenting.



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Tom
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby Tom » 04 Aug 2016, 01:43

So what's up with the discussion?
Joe, I found you on fb, maybe discuss there? Or do you have any other suggestions?
You said you are looking forward to it and that the topic is dear to your heart so let's do it:)

Maybe someone else will have a comment to the article..
I am really interested in feedback here so it is your time to help:) !



joe kou
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby joe kou » 05 Aug 2016, 20:04

Hi Tom -

I do not check here on the forums daily so just now getting back in to this thread. Yes, you can contact me on facebook if you'd like or you can open up the discussion here.

I think a good starting point is if you can share more about your personal insights and questions in relation to the article you wrote. You mention you wrote it for 'everyone' and that you felt it was important for everyone to understand the points you presented. Can you share more about how you came to see it that way? What do you see that everyone can benefit from?



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Tom
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby Tom » 13 Aug 2016, 11:37

Hi Joe

I felt it was important for everyone to understand the points, because I see this as a practical solution to a big part of our problems. Without undestanding the problem and the solution we can not implement it so I was thinking it is sort of first step to the problem of democracy. I wannted to confront this solution with common sence here so maybe something can be written better or something new will emerge.

Joe I send you an invitation and a message on fb on the 1st of August. Could you please double check it, because I think fb plays tricks on me and prevents me from contacting new people somehow. My fb name is Tomek - polish version of Tom and I have no profile picture. It also shows you haven't read my message I sent you on fb. Thank you.



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viktor
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby viktor » 14 Aug 2016, 07:23

Hi Tom,

Interesting points on democracy. What I find fascinating about democracy is that it is the system that best shows us the nature of ourselves as human beings, and hence, what we need to change, and work on as individuals – because in democracy we elect representatives – that represent our state of mind – to push our interests in the parliament. Thus, if we are not aligned with what is best for all, if we as individuals do not stand, this will be visible in the representatives we elect, in the parties that these belong to, and state employees that materialize the intentions of the party in power. In-fact, what I have concluded is that a country cannot become better/more than its individual citizens – and thus – this is what we must look at – how to empower each individual citizen to become a efficient member of society, able to see and act on common sense that is best for all.

And, we can look throughout history, there has been myriads of systems, ideologies, revolutions, religions, followings, and theories, all professing to be the change that we need, however, none of these has ever actually made a sustainable difference. The reason for that is simple, we are not able to impose a set of ideas unto this world, and believe that they will solve everything, when the very foundation of human society, the human being, is still not functioning effectively on a individual basis. Thus, the Politics of Self is what we need to review more closely in order to get to a sustainable and functional world system, where we learn to work together without harming each-other – and then the question is whether we even need to have a system in place – if we are all stable and passionate about bringing through common sense and stopping abuse wherever it rears its ugly face.



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Tom
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby Tom » 14 Aug 2016, 08:38

Hi Viktor

Thank you for your reply.
What I find fascinating about democracy is that it is the system that best shows us the nature of ourselves as human beings
I find democracy as one of major causes to how our nature has changed. While we exist in this criminal system our nature acts along and we become criminals participating in it, thus my suggestion is to stop. We can't change our nature while still living democracy.
– because in democracy we elect representatives –
I think you missed the reality completly here. Now politicians are actors, selected by 'mafia' that runs the show. Real management is done behind closed doors, politicians are just puppets to entertain you, they never present common sense or real solutions. They present lies to you and fullfill the 'mafia agenda' always lying about its real nature. It is all deception, you don't understand how the system works and now you claim we need to push our interests. You noticed later none of these has actually made a sustainable difference, yet you will try again:)
– because in democracy we elect representatives – that represent our state of mind –
Those representatives can be elected if we use the system presented in the article. Now the system works that we 'elect' pre-planned and selected candidates, that will fullfill 'mafia agenda'. They do not represent us, but other group of interests.
Thus, if we are not aligned with what is best for all, if we as individuals do not stand

Yes, thats why I presented this article so you can align yourself with what is best for all, and stand for this point:)
how to empower each individual citizen to become a efficient member of society
The best solution is to explain the common sence, undo the deception, explain the lies. Without explaining democracy propperly everyone will certainly reamin completly enslaved. You can't be efficient if you are existing in slave mantality that you must elect your master and 'push your interests in the parlliment'. Slaves don't push anything so your strategy will not work, as it has been proven over the years and the sitiuation is getting worse in that area.



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Tom
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Re: Article about democracy

Postby Tom » 14 Aug 2016, 08:44

Thus, the Politics of Self is what we need to review more closely in order to get to a sustainable and functional world syste
We need to explain the deception. The politics of self - many interests of self - but no interest in whats best for all. You need politics of whats best for all. Why live for here-after for your 'better self' someday when you can live now and now implement the solutions that would be best for all. All the solutions are here we just need to realize them, stop the deception and see the common sense:)




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