Discussion about how decide what's Best for All

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Discussion about how decide what's Best for All

Postby Anna » 14 Oct 2014, 07:11

Sharing here a discussion about how to determine what is and make decisions that are 'Best for all'. You're welcome to take part in the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJs8KJC ... e=youtu.be
I posted this vlog and got the following response from a YouTube user:
Heinrich Metzger
5 hours ago

at least for countries ruled by decendants of such factions wich had at least in the past robbings of organs, have the ruling class present as a species separate from the other humanoid species. ruling in the military, industry and in civilian places. the military part builds grows in power, the civili part also and they care consistently about education and corruption of those they rule over and they are kind of picking individuals using their superiority over the masses of lightly defended individuals although many of them are lightly defended.
Heinrich Metzger
5 hours ago

your country together with netherland is a hippocritic slimy bastard country of sort. not all th epeoplbe but basicly the faction. half of africa is ruled by them and africa had appertheid in these regions.
Heinrich Metzger
4 hours ago

what does the selfish want or will want? how does it progress on its own?

i couldnt give a detailed answer to this but basically:

1)first in the primitive times,
-they prevented usually other males from copulating or having sex or even being around females they chose.
-they have multiplied in numbers (with the females around them)
-they have raped females if they liked the appearance of it
*when there was a minority of other types they could not reproduce so fast and a male needed many females. some of the genes coming together with the minor may have produced traits desireable also to selfish males

-they have also evolved the selfish themselves. and there was language invented and knowledge passed on, so they begi n to know about what plants to eat what plants not to eat.
-they have killed animals they have taken it apart and noticed at least some of them eating the animal nearby how the tracks are and so forth
-even such selfish nations invented or learned the use of fire and how to create it and how it can burn things

-they have learned about keeping animals
-they even learned about educating various lower animals, wich are in some way educated similar to human
-they have eventually learned about breeding animals

-they eventhe selfish multipied so they wandered and scouted outside
-as they have scouted they have found other species of human. being selfish they looked at them and decided to attack them using poisons wich they have found in plants and such

-there was the naive kind of human bred at some point for cognitive work. the selfish also done cognitive work as they have evolved (to keep up the altruist, their genes were present in raped or seduced females but the offspring of the selfish and such female is a mixture with containing variety of smart/altruism related genes)
-the selfish used wit to educate humans divert their attention. attention control was a main part of their ways and still is mostly for diversion and for control of habbits built on other habbits and on attractive repeatable things

-metals were discovered wich may recquired mining coal or turf since maybe wood even sawdust wood wich thez couldnt produce much could not produce enough heat intensity for melting rocks for acquiring metals from it

-metals invented soon the selfish have created possibilities for surgery.
-the healing of wound was observed, the strenght of some of the tissues were noticed heating of metal was a waz to burn wounds for closing, metals sharp enugh annd heated weer steriliyed by boiled water and fire, airthight seal was achieved via usage of steriliyed leather

-there were plans devised. technology improved members infiltrated other communities.
-they have used natural drives to instigate crime often or they would always catch someone after crimes were commited by their groups. more often then not the someone was someone prepared as a victim. prepared by them
-they have transplanted organs for lenghtening young lifespan, using realy sharp tools and tissues of compatible humans.
-wars were created, number of altruists had their anger channelled only to those who they could hurt (who looked different from those who could during their education easily hurt them). these were some of them the puppet soldiers.
*maybe they recquired whole states of puppet soldiers or tribes so that war is based on their lack of correct protection, and so from this side the evil could start conflict by themselves hiding shooting at the enemy or making problems such as diseases emmerge in the selected enemy tribe when there was contact with these.. later the evil equiped them with metal armors and so forth.. they have done their breeding in poor tribes

-spreading of diseases and war into less developed communities as well as causing poisonings in order to hinder their development occured.
-organs were harvested and transplanted. using slaves or using scenes of wars where biological weapons were not used *organs of fallen soldiers tested and implanted
-news were spread about various civilians being killed who were near warzones.

-as technolgy increases they continue their organ harvesting via diversion and wit (war it self is such)
-continuing their breeding programs sabotaging
-keeping their civilians and preys lightly defended
-keeping many of their members dear to others still part of a comparably stronger group in front of victims and comparably to army lightly defended at least apparently so in case of a system change they could think they can again rise to power (they already exersice power over many)
- gradually phasing out organ robbery to people held underground captive their whole maturation for organ growth, and also for other means of technological/industrial advancement.
- gradually solving worlds problems as organ robbery is phased out yet still creating wars sometimes not magically making such disappear
- suppressing everone who wants to climb and acquire real influence and power basicly as part of their breeding they intend to suppresse phenotypes (like myself) who they predict in early life that the phenotypes would likely cause a caring but inelligent person (one who would soon realyse on his own just by thinking that what is the case abotu the system and if there would be power would use it against those inside the system).
-they still keep abusive experimentation on various basis. one is research into psychic weapons in wich case they keep their victims in thight control.
-breeding new species sentient.. including those residing in the computer (such as blue brain project)

BASICALLY this is about the overall track the selfish organ robber and manipulator kind of groups designated for themselves.

but at least there were other factions. wich i dont know how it is but could have created some stuff..

what is being done is that there is technology used along with diversion (psychology) to take control of people. the selfish do so, basicly for carnal desires but they do so with wit. such as ensuring that many of the exess males doesnt get females and ensuring that they get more females and also ensuring that they acquire more then the victims (so those the victis who clearly have reason to attack them have less in quantity and preferable by them also in quality ).. then obviously also for organs. there is such a thing as organ transplant. then also plain simple for diversion as well. they use radio waves to manipulate the conductor tissues of brains sensitive to some radio waves.. and they use implants or mind latering drugs or selfrepeated cycles associated with stuff.

so ultimately the selfish would like that everones brains are jailed.. so the selfish in case the blue brian project succesds have all the victims and naive followers disabled from production etc and from reproduction but replaced vith machine based versions who are quick to replicate and the mind residing on a machine where all the neurons are accessible as data (but never the less still sentient).

the good on the other hand wants to estabilish peace by education, survaivalance, breeding and to a lesser degree maybe with implants.

during the second world war there was an animal human hybrid (well humans are animals) creaed or many versions by at least one faction in the goal in mind to create a faction of good seeing as how all the world was a madness (or many places).

they had insufficient reprodutive capacity so this was a major element, mix animals so that the new factio ncan be educated to be good with little stuff consumed healthy enough smart enough and could communicate with humans.

such individuals have escaped and even to this day there are secret police elemens who fabricate stories around them faked wich faked stories are also fabricated for their victims (who they implant or have them radio waves heard such as myself) the primary intention is that they wish i would cocentrate on finding them via psychic powers if there are such or maybe to make me angry about them .. point is if the psychic power touches the members of this faction then they would feel that something from the other world the history of wich they know has something wich can access them in a hidden way.
I asked my fellow Destonians for assistance and got the following reply from Andrea T:
Although I don’t understand this man for the most part I do get an inkling of what he is saying which is the selfishness of the human being. When I listened to your vlog I came up with the fact that you had not considered what was best for all but still came from the position of what would serve the human. He is trying to communicate this and what the minds of men do.

An ecosystem is just that, a system, and the human being only has a very small glimpse into. For instance, these trees are in Sweden which has a very small time where the sap would run due to a far Northern climate and would stop when it was cold which is many months. The sap is the life force or blood of the trees. You don’t mention the type of trees they are but if they are like an Aspen then the trees all root together and are one organism and so you could hurt the entire forest. If they are other trees it has been proven that the trees communicate amongst each other and are part of a complex system. You have no idea how this effects the ground water, the other animals and complex microorganisms in the forest where everything is interdependent, and so eventually to the people in the area and how it effects the entire ecosystem.

The percentage of oxygen has gone down on the planet about 2% in the last 100 years which has severe consequences and so has changed the system and so to cut down trees for a slide is really preposterous because you are not looking at what the trees provide as oxygen.

Why not look at moving the playground to an open area and leaving the trees to their life and forest they have lived in for probably hundreds of years? The consideration of your enjoyment is still looking from man’s dominion over the forest and not being one and equal with it and that is what this man is saying in a circuitous way.

So investigate all things and see what truly is best for all. The trees don’t get to vote in your democracy but if they did I would suggest they would not kill themselves for a few children and a slide that could be moved away from them and for a use where the sap runs only a few months. Man has to be the steward of these things and not go into their selfishness and truly consider what is best for all.
And Marlen:
Cool assessment, Andrea. I would have voted no to cutting down the trees while suggesting ways to prevent the sap from being the one problem. I know that area of the playground and it's all definitely surrounded by trees, which means the relocation of the slide and swings would be a bit difficult, but maybe there can be an easier way to prevent the sap from staining the playground (since there is no relocation possible because the whole area is full of trees) like for example, covering the slide with some kind of plastic and whenever kids and parents go out, then the cover can be removed and if some sap falls while kids are in there, well, some damp cloths or else can be the solution.

In this case if one tree is cut is not so much of a problem, considering that some trees had already been cut in the same area actually and also considering that the construction of the buildings in that area already required quite an extensive batch of trees to be cut down, which is what I found rather cool about where Anna lives: they didn't just cut down all trees around the buildings, they are all surrounded by this little forest-like areas, which is much, much, much 'better' than any other urbanization process we get to see in other cities where all trees are cut down.

Another example on cutting trees. In Puebla, downtown, there were also century-old trees left in the main plaza and one of them fell during a storm and killed someone, so the remaining trees - most of them - were cut and yes, you get to see the massive stump on the ground there which on the tree's shoes you might think oh well why should I die, however here is also to consider the area where it is and the previous accident. So yes, this is a usual dilemma of man vs. nature since in this case it wasn't just sap but an old tree that fell and killed people. I won't go into discussing 'what's worth more' but if the tree fell it meant it was old so in an area where hundreds of people constantly reunite and hang around, of course it does makes sense to prevent further similar accidents like that.

Therefore in a way is also to realize the same point that one would usually react to in terms of death/killing and so forth which happens all the time, we kill every single day in ways we're not even aware of, it's just that it becomes too obvious when it comes to trees or animals of course. I learned how to 'make peace' with this by understanding how nature operates and the continuous consequences we inflict upon our environment, and this I got to understand from Bernard whenever I would still jump inside me when hearing the pigs being slaughtered or see a dog eating a chicken or else, and so he explained how life and death happens all the time, we're just not aware of it. This obviously does not justify cutting down trees, it simply supported me to then remove my experience behind death of the environment/animals and then focus on common sense physicality.

So, this is what I wanted to share - and the point of the video, what I consider is valuable is the fact that this was a decision placed to voting, whether Anna's consideration is the most appropriate or not, the majority will still decide and if majority decides to cut down the tree(s) then that's 'where we are' at the moment in our minds/process as humanity, which is then why this process of investigating all things is definitely valuable in considering all aspects. For example, Anna can share this perspective Andrea has shared on considering the role of the trees in that environment and some other practical solutions like the covers for the seats of the swings and slide, as well as the seasonal timeframe in which the sap falls down too.

On Heinrich, what he explains is essentially the process of control/domination over nature and those that were subdued for another's supremacy in this zero-sum reality. So, blaming first world countries for it is of course not the solution, but rather as we have also discussed in hangouts: it's about time first world countries set then the example of how to start establishing solutions and so reverse the conquering in a detrimental manner to a constructive manner, where they can innovate in political/economic solutions, which might even mean actually learning from other groups and places around the world where self-determination still exists. In the end it is definitely so that we are all subsumed in the same consequences due to dominant models, but that is simply unsustainable, so one way or another we will all have to upgrade our systems whether we are first world or third world or whatever.

Our need for control is always coming out of fear which is then masked as the illusion of power, a 'historically acceptable' way to justify subjugating others/the environment/life to the mind. So, here we know that we have all done this individually and collectively, so I would actually suggest to respond to him in a way where no 'nations' are called out but that this process of invasion/control/destruction is understood as the way we have ALL co-created this reality by the sheer fact of being existing in our minds and repeating the same patterns of only regarding ourselves as species and disregarding the environment, which more and more is now becoming a huge wake up call to realize that it is not sustainable and we have to wake up, without blaming or diverting responsibility to 'some' only, but realizing this is a collective responsibility to acknowledge.

Cool perspectives, thanks for sharing.
And then i wrote back:
A point to consider in relation to making decisions that are best for all is that at the moment, we will many times not be able to make decisions that are best for all from an absolute starting-point, but best within the given circumstances/conditions. So in the video, what I mentioned was not a 'best for all' as something absolute, but based on the context of the options that were available to us.

Going deeper into the issue in terms of investigating what kind of trees it is or if something can be done with the playground, involves going to the politics of the housing-situation, which is certainly something that we could expand ourselves to do. So that's more a 'next step' in terms of expanding what is best for all - which we might be able to do in some instances, but not in all. So that's when we must look at what is best for all given the circumstances and context. In this context for example, we only had a couple of hours to decide, so we had to decide based on the information available to us at the time. I will definitely take your perspective to heart Andrea for when I am faced with the opportunity to make such decisions next time in terms of seeing how far I can expand myself in seeing what is best for all.

Secondly, I've in my process had a tendency to way what's best for nature/animals as being more important than what's best for the humans. This came through in how I would over-prioritize our cats and what would be best for them, yet willing to compromise what's best for our practical living situation. So this is something that Bernard showed me, that unfortunately as it is right now, because of the way we've created the world - the humans does come first in many instances. Because if I was to compromise our practical living and instead prioritize the cats, we might end up in a situation where we wouldn't be able to even support the cats let alone ourselves and thus compromise everyone because we wouldn't be best for all - and the cats unfortunately can't do much to change this world at the moment. So my initial move was to prioritize the trees over the humans, but neither is effective - as that then doesn't include all, meaning: considering what is best for all also doesn't mean that the human lives shouldn't be considered in seeing nature/animals as more important. So yes - many dimensions to consider with such questions, which are important that we start incorporating into our individual and communal lives.

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Re: Discussion about how decide what's Best for All

Postby Michelle » 14 Oct 2014, 18:08

Very cool perspectives here Anna. Thanks for sharing!!

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Re: Discussion about how decide what's Best for All

Postby mikelammers » 14 Oct 2014, 20:46

Cool and interesting that the word 'ecosystem' pops up. = the economic system. And we all know it's about the reverse engineering of that system (starting with myself) to see that it all comes down to the proposition of profit = 'at the cost of x'. So within the 'eco' system we all are systematized to be selfish (including the trees). Direct democracy is only a word with a personal connection we can or cannot attach to it. Eventually it comes down to creativity, communication skills and being able to 'sell' people ideas and within that give people an experience of profit. Like with teaching it's fun to do that and after that to open the construct up and show people what you did and within that show how the mind is preprogrammed and what one can do to investigate how… etc etc.

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Re: Discussion about how decide what's Best for All

Postby Marlen » 14 Oct 2014, 23:40

Cool and interesting that the word 'ecosystem' pops up. = the economic system. And we all know it's about the reverse engineering of that system (starting with myself) to see that it all comes down to the proposition of profit = 'at the cost of x'. So within the 'eco' system we all are systematized to be selfish (including the trees). Direct democracy is only a word with a personal connection we can or cannot attach to it. Eventually it comes down to creativity, communication skills and being able to 'sell' people ideas and within that give people an experience of profit. Like with teaching it's fun to do that and after that to open the construct up and show people what you did and within that show how the mind is preprogrammed and what one can do to investigate how… etc etc.

I would say that all words for that matter are quite infected from emotions, feelings, beliefs, preferences, etc. So the point here is to rather show an example of what is possible when one stops only focusing on someone else making the decision and then having to actually do proper research in order to make an informed decision. What is very clear from this example is that even with having the option of direct democracy, there's still quite a lot of self-education and practical application of common sense to place in, otherwise it becomes the rule of the least informed and then the whole point of democracy falls apart.

So real democracy as people's empowerment does come with the ability to give to one another the right to decide, but that's not enough of course. So this is also about walking that process removing the notion that there is some sort of 'separate interest' that only applies to 'me' and how that when we only do that, it eventually backfires one way or another. So even if the system is designed to function in a 'selfish' manner as you point out, remaining only within that mind-frame and only addressing this self interest will get us nowhere, so the point here is to begin expanding our awareness only from considering 'what's in it for me' to the inevitable 'what is in it for everyone here'

It is possible to 'sell' many ideas, but ultimately the point is to of course be able to realize them for the potentials they are within each one of us, so nothing has to be 'bought' in the end in fact, and that's how through practice it becomes a realization = this is in fact me and my potential to do this for myself and others as well.

If we continue to dwindle our potential through talking to each other within the limited mind-frame of only addressing each other's self interest, we will retard our process of expansion even more, so that's a consideration in terms of why we share about these concepts this way as well, just like Anna did on her vlog too.

Getting to the discussion from direct democracy to 'how our mind operates' is quite a walk, so, here also to consider other ways to get to such point, otherwise wanting to walk all the way is rather lengthy as well. I have written a blog on this so I share it here.... http://livingincomeforall.wordpress.com ... or-change/ and http://livingincomeforall.wordpress.com ... uaranteed/

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